Nancy is a new reader from Carlisle, Mass, who wants to restore her gorgeous pink GE steel cabinets. Drool drool. I really wanted pink, but my husband (and the decorating gods) won out and we have aqua.
Here is Nancy’s question:
Hi Pam, I love your site. I’m just beginning to explore so I apologize if this is covered somewhere but I didn’t see it. I have a 1958 ranch with the original GE pink kitchen cabinets including the original double oven. The cabinets desperately need painting. The paint is completely worn away in some places. There are way too many for me to consider removing them and taking them somewhere to be painted.
It seems most people recommend either powder coating or an automative paint job for metal cabinets that need painting. I have found a company that uses an electrostatic charged enamel paint with a high gloss. They do a lot of steelcase file cabinets, desks, school lockers, etc. It seems as if that would work well for kitchen cabinets but I’m a little concerned that nobody in these forums mentions it. Any idea if this is a good way to go?
Here are a couple of pictures to take a look at. Just for fun, I included one of the original wallpaper we uncovered. Thought you might like to see it.
Thanks,
Nancy
Thanks, Nancy. Love the kitchen! Love the wallpaper! Love the brown (plastic? tile?) backsplash! Love the pinky stove top hood! I don’t know the answer to your question, though, so I’ve asked trusty Palm Springs Stephan, who knows most everything and especially how to paint metal as he is also a vintage car guy.
Before I get into his advice I do want to remind everyone to be cognizant of potential lead paint issues whenever they do renovations: Be sure to see the EPA’s complete website: http://www.epa.gov/lead/
He is the GREATEST and responded right away:
Sure, I’m happy to give this a whirl. But I am not an expert … just an “informed renovator.”
The process that Nancy describes sounds very similar to powder coating in that it involves a low-voltage electrical charge that helps paint to stick better to the metal. But from the way Nancy describes the “new” process, there do seem to be some very important differences.
As I have always understood the process of powder coating, the metal is first chemically (dipping) or mechanically (sanding) stripped absolutely bare. If Nancy’s cabinets are going to be painted in place, this process will either be minimized or skipped altogether. I would think that would have a direct effect on the final quality, probably a negative one. Proper preparation is always a huge part of any renovation process. I just don’t see how metal cabinetry in a household kitchen can be properly prepped if they are not first disassembled and removed. And the mess will be enormous!
In powder coating, the stripped metal to be painted is given a low-voltage electrical charge and a powdered pigment is dusted onto the surface. It is a dry process. The object is then heated so that the dry powdered pigment “melts” to form a smooth, glossy, and hard surface. Think of the old art-form of enameling a piece of jewelry. The process is very similar.
From what Nancy describes, the “new” process uses the same electrical charge to the metal, but the pigment is carried by liquid paint. And again because the job is being done in place without removing the cabinets, the paint will not be heat cured. This will almost certainly result in a final surface that is less smooth and less durable.
If the cabinets are removed and taken to a powder coater, it is much easier to paint both the outside and the inside of the cabinets, giving them a “new inside and out” appearance. I suspect Nancy’s “new” process will be limited to the outside of the cabinets … or if the insides are also painted, the inability to properly prep them while they are still installed may result in a poorer quality finish on the inside.
I wonder … can Nancy not arrange for a powder coating company to pick up the cabinets from her house? Or perhaps she can rent a U-Haul to take them to the powder coater?
I’ve never seen this “new” paint process used before, but I have to suspect that the likely limitations described above may well produce an end result that will not please her as much as would powder coating or even auto painting. Yes, it is a massive pain in the patootie to remove a bunch of cabinets, haul them around, and then re-install them. But as any experienced renovator can tell you, cutting corners also means cutting quality. I guess Nancy has to decide whether she is willing to risk the possibility of a less-than-perfect outcome in order to save some sweat and sore muscles. I vote for taking the cabinets out and doing it right.
Always happy to help,
Palm Springs Stephan
Thanks, Palm Springs Stephen. Hey, I have now given you your own Tag. Over the next couple of days I will go back and relabel all posts to which Palm Springs Stephan has contributed – or better said, written altogether – so fans can read up!
Meanwhile, Nancy – and Stephan – and readers – I do have one additional thought – but I am not sure of this either: Has anyone ever tried removing just the doors and having them repainted? It scares me to think the doors might not go on smoothly afterward – but perhaps another reader has tried this?
And BarbieT adds to the conversation:
Hi Pam, in reply to electrostatic painting, I read in This old house forum about some people that had their cabinets electrostaticly painted.They had them done right in their house, and it ran them about $1700.00 or $1800.00. They said the outcome was great. You just need to find some one in your area that does that kind of painting.
Thank you BT!
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If my memory serves me right, in automotive factories, they use an electrostatic process to paint car bodies. I don’t think that the process is really all that new. Sounds to me like the results would be much like any other automotive paint job.
Oh, and love the pink!
I completely agree, Rebecca, and thank you for reminding me that automobile factories use the same electrostatic process. But they also heat cure the paint by passing the parts, which are not yet attached to an auto, through a huge oven. So there are still fundamental differences: painting fully assembled cabinets while they are still in the kitchen versus painting disassembled parts in a special painting booth, and not heat curing the cabinets versus heat curing of auto body parts and powder coated pieces. That’s why I called the process Nancy described “new,” in quotes … meaning new in some ways but not in others. And your note brings up a very useful comparison: How often does a repainted car look as good as it did when it came off the assembly line? Unless you take a car body completely apart (called a “frame off” restoration), it is VERY difficult to make the new paint look as good as the original factory paint job.
And I too love the pink!!!
So Stephan, what do you think about the refinisher who said he could not put the steel kitchen cabinet doors into a paint oven to cure because of the insulation? Does this sound like an issue? I have to tell you, I am confused because I certainly remember hearing from readers who did this. I think.
It would depend entirely on what type of insulation is inside the doors. It would also depend on what temperatures are used for the heat curing process. The process in auto plants, for example, uses temperatures of only about 200 degrees fahrenheit, well below the smolder and ignition points of most modern insulation materials. But powder coating uses temperatures of up to 300-400 degrees and more, hot enough to make some insulations smolder or flame, especially those from the 1950s when flammability controls were less stringent or non-existent. Older insulation may also be partially degraded and thus more readily subject to smoldering and flaming.
If the insulation is a flammable one, obviously the higher-temperature heat curing process used in powder coating could cause it to discolor the paint with smoke fumes even as it is being cured. Styrofoam was invented in WWII so I suppose it is possible that the doors might contain it, though I suspect it is unlikely (it was not yet that widely used in the 1950s). Styrofoam is highly meltable and flammable, so it would absolutely have to be removed before even low-temperature heat curing. The doors might also be lined with “beaver board,” a common sound insulator from the 1950s made from sawdust loosely pressed together. Beaver board is highly flammable and would probably smolder during high-temperature heat curing.
But many types of insulation are non-flammable. Fiberglass insulation, for example, should withstand quite easily the heat-curing process of even powder coating. And if it is an asbestos-based insulation, very popular in the 1950s, it is heat resistant and will definitely withstand any heat curing, but you might want that removed for health reasons.
In any case, I would remove the insulation before having the job done. Removing it has two purposes, in my mind. First, it will completely solve the heat curing issue, certainly. But for myself, I am very sensitive to odors … especially cigarette smoke. I can always smell that odor seeping out of the insulation of a 50-year-old cabinet. And it seems that the 1950s were an era when almost everyone smoked! Removing the insulation will also remove other odors: old “kitcheny” smells, pet odors, mold and mildew odors, etc. No sense spending a lot of money to refinish or repaint your cabinets while still keeping those musty old odors trapped inside them!
If the insulation itself is solid (e.g., beaver board, plywood), it can be removed by prying open one edge of the door very, very carefully. I would open the bottom of the doors of the floor cabinets or the top of the doors of the wall cabinets so that any damage from opening them will not show. But you have to be VERY careful and patient when doing this so that you do not damage the appearance of the visible portions of the door. You can try to open it all the way across the seam this way, remove the insulation, then reseal the opening before having the door painted. If the door seams are welded or soldered closed (mine are just folded with “tab-A-in-slot-B” closures), you might need a skilled metal worker to do the job.
But if the insulation is a material that can be broken up while still inside the door (fiberglass, styrofoam), I would use a grinder to cut a small permanent slot in the middle of the non-visible door edge where it will not be seen easily (as above, top for a wall cabinet door, bottom of a floor cabinet door). Cut a narrow slot about 1/4 inch wide and about 2 inches long. Then you can “fish out” the fiberglass or styrofoam using an appropriate tool (a long screwdriver, coat hanger or other type of wire hook device). It’s like getting the contents out of an egg without cracking it … a bit of a challenge!
I suppose the insulation could be replaced if someone really wanted the sound-dampening effect it provides (no one likes the sound of slamming doors!). After the painting or powder coating process is completed, one of the new expansion-foam insulations can be blown inside the door, either through the permanent slot made to remove fiberglass or through a purpose-drilled small hole. Most of these expansion foams can be purchased in household-sized aerosol cans at the local building supply store. They are especially popular these days for use in weather sealing exterior windows, and quite inexpensive. You just blow it in, then it expands and self-cures to a solid similar to styrofoam. It is both a sound and temperature insulating material.
Again, the whole process hinges on how much work a renovator is willing to do, how much money he or she is willing to spend, and to what degree he or she is a perfectionist. But if you are lucky enough to have fiberglass inside your doors, as I do, you can go ahead with even powder coating without worrying about the heat curing process causing problems, though you may keep the odor problem.
I haven’t read all the posts about this so this may have been covered but, what about using two part epoxy type paint? Rock hard finish and no cooking.
Wait a minute! Do you mean to tell me there is INSULATION INSIDE the Geneva Steel Cabinet doors??? So much to learn here.
Nancy your pink kitchen is great! Hope you find the right solution for giving her a fresh face!
Yeah, Alice, that’s what keeps the doors from rattline when you shut them – instead, you get a nice satisfying thud. The insulation is a big core of fiberboard-like material. I have lots of material on this. When I get a chance I will scan some info in. I think that we have all definitely uncovered an issue that needs to be better understood – that is, how much heat can these take in the baking process. That said, I know PLENTY of people have had these powder coated etc. so there is history to work with.
Chriss, I would think that two-part epoxy paint would work, certainly. Isn’t that the paint they use on fiberglass sailboat hulls? I’ve never seen it used on anything other than boats, but I believe it takes special equipment and skills that most DIY renovators may not have. Can you use it inside the house without removing the cabinets? Maybe coastal or lake dwellers could haul their cabinets to a boatyard, though?
Pam, my Columbia kitchen cabinets have densely packed fiberglass inside the doors, but the bathroom “Vani-Lav” (also by Columbia?) had plywood inside the doors. Do you happen to know which companies used what sound-dampening insulation?
Thanks to Palm Springs Stephen and all who responded. I have found some posts from a few years ago on the internet from people recommending the electrostatic painting done on site so I think I am going to explore further. To save some money, I was going to just have them do the exteriors but now I am going to ask them to quote me the interiors too. I want it to look nice, but it doesn’t have to be perfect. As long as I’m doing the cabinets no harm then perhaps the next owner can do a complete restoration of them! If I ever stop talking and start doing some things I’ll send pictures
How did the electrostatic painting work out? I have geneva metal cabinets and would like to have them painted on site-would appreciate any information you can give on your experience.
We are just finishing up our kitchen job (will send pictures when done). The cabinets look fine but it is certainly not like the original smooth high gloss finish. I think for having them done in place it is okay. I don’t think this particular company prepped them as well as they should have and I may have some issues to bring up with them about this. I agree with others that if you really want to restore them to their original glory you need to take them out and do the powdercoating. If that seems daunting, however, (as it did to me) then I think it is far better to at least get them painted and enjoy them rather than get rid of them as some might decide to do.
Well, I am in the process of having my cabinets powder coated. The first group is back and looks great – absolutely perfect!
The problem I now have is that before getting them coated I had to remove any plastic parts as they would have melted away. Some of the plastic parts came out okay, but some were destroyed in the process. My question is – where do I begin to look for these replacement plastic parts?? Some shouldn’t be too hard – they are the plugs that fill in the extra holes and the pads on the inside of the drawers that keep them from slamming, but the ones I’m really confounded by are the little nubs that are on the upper cabinets that “grab” the door when it closes. It appears that these are sometimes metal and sometimes plastic. I guess I would prefer metal replacements. On the back of these were little metal plates holding them on – they didn’t fair well in the removal process either. Any suggestions on where I might be able to find replacements for these parts? Thanks!
I am the President of Color Tech Refinishing, Inc. We have been doing on-site electrostatic painting of anything metal since 1986 in the Tampa Bay area, Florida. We have done many metal kitchen cabinet projects with better than new results. I f anyone is interested I can be reached at 727-937-7185 or 800-798-2468.
Respectfully, William Wander.
I’m researching this as I’m about to move into the “old family house” that still has the original St. Charles cabinets from the mid-50s and was thinking about changing the color.
I remember my mother having them repainted the original color, while in place (outsides only) a long time ago, maybe after they’d been there 25 years (?) and they look good as new, even now, maybe 25 years later. I remember the painters masking off parts of the kitchen and spraying the cabinets with some kind of enamel paint. Unfortunately, I don’t know the details. But, the result was a hard, shiny, smooth surface.
Oh, I forgot to say, I know the cabinets weren’t stripped before being painted.
GNancy, please keep us up to date on your progress with those St.Charles cabinets. I have been getting quotes on replacing mine, with new wood cabinets, and the cost is crazy, considering I like so much about my St Charles cabinets, except for their color.
What are you thinking of using?
Does anyone know if you repaint the Aqua Youngstown metal cabinets what color, on what paint chart, is closet to the orginial?
Michelle
Did anyone have any luck on finding replacement nubs for the doors? How about how to remove the plastic rollers on the drawers? Finally, does anyone know what insulation was used by St. Charles in their mid-50s metal cabinetry?
Hi Ed – I think there is someone on the Forum who may have extra “nubs”. Check in the St. Charles, section, as I recall. But maybe it’s in the Geneva or Youngstown areas. Regading the insulation, I advise that you have it looked at by a professional as during the postwar period asbestos was used in various forms of insulation. In fact, I would please ask readers to refrain giving advice on this question. For example, it’s possible that materials changed from year to year. On this one, again: See a professional. Pam
Nancy, have you finished the cabinets yet? My mother has the same pink cabinets that you have and am looking into getting them restored for her. Pictures would be great.
Thanks,
Hi all. I just wanted to tell everyone that my wife an I recently had our St. Charles cabinets painted electrostaticly painted and we’re beyond pleased. We had the outside and inside done. It cost around 2,000 and we have a relatively large kitchen.
A few points of concern:
Look over your cabinets VERY WELL before they come to prep. Point out any defects, holes, rust you want repaired. While the guys did a good job on ours, even having the foresight to paint under the sink with a special rust preventing primer, there are still some places I would have liked done a little better.
If doing the inside (which I highly recommend) I would try to remove as much paint from the sliding drawer sides and the top of the drawers. With several layers of paint, these areas tend to bind and lead to chipping. Also, try to remove as much from the hinge areas as you can, same caking of paint and chipping issue could arise here.
We initially we going to use two-part epoxy, and this would have been almost as good as the original finish, BUT, some knuckle head over the years painted with some other type of paint that caused a chemical reaction with the epoxy as soon as it was sprayed on. So, our guy didn’t panic, he mixed an enamel with some hardener and sprayed with that. Worked like a charm. He mixed a high gloss and a semi gloss half and half and it turned out perfect. So, make sure you know what you’re painting over before you try epoxy. Epoxy paint is expensive.
I’ll have pics as soon as my father-in-law and I finish installing the new WilsonArt laminate counter tops.
Nice to hear from you, Colin, can’t wait to see the photos. It sounds like with this process you just painted over the existing paint – and that removal of existing original paint was kept to a minimum. I do want to remind everyone about testing for lead in the original paint and being aware of proper procedures especially if you are going to be disturbing that original finish.