Elizabeth asks, “Do I need clips to hold my drop-in sink and hootie ring in place?” Three approaches – read on:
Dear Pam:
I need assistance from the site/members who may have installed a vintage cast-iron sink with metal rim (“hootie ring”).
My sink is a vintage Kohler item from ReStore that came with its own 32″x21″ stainless “hootie ring.” No clips were there.
We’re now at an impasse with the counter maker, who insists that ALL sinks have clips. He won’t proceed with the counter order/cut-out until we provide clips for this sink.
(1) I’ve spoken with Mac the Plumber’s customer service line AND Kohler’s customer service. Mac says that sinks with “hootie rings” don’t have clips–the overhang of the sink beyond the smaller-cut hole bears all the weight. For its part, Kohler says that cast-iron sink don’t have clips (regardless of ring or no ring) because anything as heavy as cast iron isn’t going anywhere.
The contractor, for his part, has never done an installation like this but swears that an old cast-iron sink that he removed one time DID have clips.
I need guidance from more experienced folks about a) whether they used clips and b) precisely how a sink with “hootie ring” gets installed in a laminate countertop (no tile).
Thanks.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth, no surprise here, Palm Springs Stephan to the rescue. He sends the photo just above – along with the following report straight from his kitchen sink:
The attached photo is for St Louis Elizabeth in regard to her contractor demanding sink clips.
(2) My own sink is porcelained steel (? thin cast iron?) and I believe original, and is dropped into an original 1958 Formica-over-plywood countertop. The faucet was re-done at some point, but I am fairly certain that the sink itself has never been removed from the countertop, since the “hootie ring” appears intact. So I am sending along this photo of the clips. I cannot really tell whether they are original or were added at some later re-sale in order to comply with California building codes regarding earthquakes. EVERYTHING has to be bolted down here, and any seller must make the property quake-code compliant prior to any sale, so they may easily be later additions.
I hope St Louis Elizabeth finds this helpful.
Palm Springs Stephan
AND an update from John at deabath advises clips, too!
Hi Pam;
(2) Yes, the rings always need a clip. Here’s the problem, many of the clips are specific to the rim. Inform the public; if you find a nice metal rim sink at a salvage yard, BE SURE the rim and clips are with it. When the salesperson at the yard tells you that you can get the clips at any plumbing shop, don’t believe it…..John
Janet says
Recently I was told that Kohler has discontinued their metal-rimmed sinks. If you want one you’d better hurry to see if your local plumbing supply house (where the plumbers buy their materials) has any or can get them. You don’t have to be a plumber to at least call and ask, and quite likely you don’t have to be in the trade to buy from a place like this.
Chris Robinson says
I have a customer that has a Carne Loveet bathroom lav 1-990v 16 by 18 inch oval could i still get the hootie rim w/ clips for that. thank you for your time
pam kueber says
i don’t sell anything on this blog, chris
John katzmarek says
Information for all: we finally found our hootie rim, cast iron, double bowl sink at LOWE’S HOME CENTER in Michigan City, In. Yes, Kohler stil makes them. We have one ordered and are anxiously awaiting it’s arrival. They can of course just order the Hootie seperately. I am sure they could also order the clips some of you are searching for.
John
pam kueber says
Yes, John, Kohler makes two kitchen sinks with hudees, I have them on the Product Guides: Kitchens page. And, they make two hudee ring bathroom sinks, also spotlighted on the Product Guides: Bathrooms / Sinks & Sink Legs page.
atomicbowler-dave says
This may or may not be of help, because I am having a hard time visualizing the installation…
Here’s what I can say: On modern “self-rimming” stainless sinks, there is a stud at each corner, intended for a clip. In most smaller production boats we use a “bar sink”, which has no cutouts for faucet fitments…just the sink shape. Due to the need for the sink not to leak (just like at home) under the rim, and due to the need for the flimsy stainless sink rim to not be deformed by the 11.00/hr. assemblers, it is not unusual at all to toss the clips and BOND the sink in place using either 3M Adhesive Sealant 4200 (NOT the fast-cure version, though!) of Sikaflex 291-LOT. (Long open time). These products come in standard caulk catridges and are available at most local and online marine outlets including West Marine, Defender, etc.
The material is applied liberally (big, fatty doubled 1/2″ bead, and the sink pressed in place…then weighted down (CRITICAL…something like a canvas bag or two of shot or bullets is the preferred tool!) Squeezeout is removed THOROUGHLY with many paper towels and Mineral Spirits (Take all precautions! Read the Jug!)
The sink will be very difficult to get back out if you ever want to, but will also be quite well installed. Not sure, though, how this works out if the rim is separate and not attached. Just thoughts.
Dave
John katzmarek says
We are wanting to replace our drop in kitchen sink with hootie rim. Everywhere we try to purchase one they tell us they no longer make this type of sink. My wife and I have used this type of sink for over 50 years and do not like the new ones with the raised edge. Do you know of anywhere these sinks may be purchased new??
pam kueber says
John, Kohler still makes two – a single bowl and a double bowl, and there is another style w/o faucet holes from Mac the Antique Plumber. See all my kitchen sink recommendations here: https://retrorenovation.com/product-guides/retro-kitchens/ Folks: All product recommendations suitable for a mid mod remodel can be found on the navigation bar under Product Guides.
dennis says
My apartment house has drop-in cast iron sinks in the kitchens, all four of them are the same set-up. the ring is held on to the sink by four plates in the corners, fairly flat with set screws to tighten them to the sink these plates hold the weight of the sink for installation to counter top,the hole in the counter top is the size of the outer dimension of the ring (minus the lip of course). then there are clips (8-10) that hold the whole assembly in the counter top and installed from the bottom going outward from sink, kind of an “L” shaped clip with a set screw one side hooks into the ring and the other a flange. I have found the “L” clips at an old hardware in my area, but have never located any corner plates yet. GOOD LUCK! Oh! remember the plumber’s putty goes between ring and sink then ring to counter top too!
Paul Phillips says
I am looking to purchase a hudee ring to utilize on a cast iron kitchen sink. 21″ x 32″
Anna Kisla says
Can you tell me where I might be able to buy the hootie rings for a bathroom sink?
Thanks,
Anna Kisla
Pam Kueber says
Anna, I have just emailed you some hudee ring source information that reader Penn sent me last month. I will also do a post asap! Maybe even tomorrow if I can get my act together. Oh – and I hope you saw the definitive post making it clear these are “hudee” rings not “hootie” rings 🙂 : https://retrorenovation.com/2008/12/09/the-mystery-of-the-hootie-ring-first-clues-uncovered/
Kitschy Kimberly says
I just wanted to add that my drop in bathroom sink has clips too. They look just like Stephan’s ,only mine has a clip in each corner. I’m in Indiana so no Earthquake code here:-)
Palm Springs Stephan says
For what it is worth, I did check my original 1958 cast iron drop-in sink in its original Formica laminate-over-plywood countertop, and there are indeed four metal C-clips bolted in, two in each back corner. (I will email a photo to Pam who can pass it on to you.) I cannot tell with certainty whether the clips are original, but they do appear to be.