I have been thinking a lot lately about whether it would be possible, today, to create a truly *timeless* kitchen and bathroom. That is: Focusing on the past 60 years, when our *modern* way of life began: Make a list of all the pieces in a kitchen and then a bathroom that could put together so that, when you saw the finished room, you could not peg it, or any of the pieces in it, to a decade or window *when everybody did that.* Alas, I could not get very far in my little interior design parlor game. I wracked my brain and could think of only two products, so far, that met my rigorous criteria for remaining in pretty much continual use in residential homes… but without getting so *hot* that they ultimately crashed and burned into a sad pile of once-trendy *hideous* *dated* ashes.
My fascination with the timeless comes, I think, as the flip side of my conniption fit whenever someone spits out the word *dated* to describe a home feature that is perfectly functional but no longer popular. Oh, how I hate that word.
While dictionaries may recognize “dated” as meaning “unfashionable”, my issue with the word is that probably 99% of what’s in your home is *dated*. That is, show me a kitchen or a bathroom installed during any decade in the 20th or early 21st century, and I can give you a *date* for it. Continuing on: Tear out a *hideous* [sic / also hate] *dated* kitchen, and replace it with what’s fabulous today — and you will have a kitchen *dated* 2012… Which some homeowner about 20 or 25 years from now will think is *hideous* and spit on and call *dated* and rip out and replace with a fabulous 2022 kitchen… and the beat goes on.
I thought and thought and you know what I think: It’s virtually impossible to put together an entire kitchen or bathroom that cannot be *dated* — and therefore, won’t become “unfashionable”.
So, that leads back to the design ethic of this blog, which is kinda sorta: If you’re gonna have a *dated* kitchen, which is inevitable (I *think*), you might as well have it *dated* to the *date* of the house, which is usually extremely very difficult to hide, especially if there are other similarly *dated* houses all around it.
As you can see, the two products that I pegged as pretty timeless are: Elkay stainless steel sink tops — which I believe have been in pretty continuous use since the 1920s… and 4″ ceramic bath tiles, also in continuous popular use since at least then. Tile colors with relatively timeless appeal: “Spa” (Daltile) blue aka heron blue or robin’s egg blue; rose beige; bone, almond, light grey. White or self- trim. Pretty liner tile.
At certain points in time, both the Elkay sinks and 4″ ceramic bathroom tiles have been very fashionable… but I don’t think they were ever particularly un-fashionable — and never *hideous*.
Miss Pam, if things did not become “dated”, there would be no need to “update”, and the economy would sufffer. Additionally, things are built purposely not to last so that you have to go out & replace fairly frequently, thereby keeping the door open at the big box home improvement stores. I like the way the British do things, they just rotate things from the living room to the attic & back again as new generations move into the family home.
Sadly, I’m afraid people in Britain are just as bad if not worse at “updating” everything in sight. Though thanks to the dire economical woes we are suffering, courtesy of City Banksters, this has eased off a bit now. Previously, induced no doubt by endless TV makeover shows, people everywhere here in the UK were ripping out kitchens (and other rooms too) and replacing perfectly good stuff with the “latest thing” often of poorer quality. It would be funny if not so often sad and wasteful. Younger generations, having no respect or interest in their parents or grandparents stuff, just throw it away. Property shows on TV led to millions of homes being redecorated in shades of white and magnolia, people would install new kitchens to lure housebuyers, only for the new housholder to promptly rip the lot out and replace it again. Madness.
Gavin, I feel the same way about furniture. I keep telling people, buy older pieces with frames in good shape, and find a good upholsterer. You’ll be better off financially, particularly over time, than buying the poor quality new offerings, and you’ll get exactly the fabric you want.
White cabinets don’t date, but door styles do change so much they do. Tough call. I think wood tones date more than white does as cabinet colours though.
White open shelves don’t date.
I have a personal bias against almond, blue in almost every shade, and rose beige. I guess I am a crank. But I can’t think of colours that are more timeless aside from the grey and bone already mentioned and maybe white? Or am I a victim of time-myopia and white is just everywhere right now? (and mostly in subway tiles)
I don’t think a marble, real marble, baking surface on some stretch of counter or table or island ever dates. Unfortunately, it ain’t cheap either, and I don’t have a stretch of counter to spare.
Now if only I could stop hating blue.
What colors do you like for bathrooms, Jordanna? Regarding white cabinets — I agree — but as you said, I could not think of a door style that was Timeless. Slab full overlay radius edge — like my Geneva steel kitchen cabinets — might make the cut. But those really fell out of fashion beginning in the … late 60s. And they’re still not really back. I have to think about this one. Maybe some sort of French Provincial door style – not too too — might make the cut. French Provincial endured from the 50s on, I think….
For bathrooms I really like green but it’s difficult to find a green that isn’t a Green of a Decade whether its jadite or avocado or forest or sage.
But a fairly light green seems pretty timeless, as does pale grey. I know some people think green is “hideous” but it seems a pretty consistent number who can’t bear to face it in the bathroom in every decade and the opposite consistent people who in every decade think its fresh and spa-like, especially when cut with white.
Not sure about pale, pale yellow. It never seems to be fully loved OR to fully go away.
Other option seems to be mainly white field tile with a single line of black. Black in larger doses sometimes makes MY heart flutter but it can easily date or look like an ’80s drug den. (That’s not what makes my heart flutter)
I agree a white pedestal sink is timeless.
I have some old tile brochures. I will try to dig them out at some point. I agree: pale pastels — yellow, green, blue — along with light grey and beige — were pretty much in continuous use. A small bathroom completely tiled in white always hurts my tender eyes; that’s just me; so I have a hard time promoting it. Cut with black – better. Or done just in the shower, with some kind of color or black trim maybe, with wallpaper or painted walls — that sounds good, too.
My 1929 bathrooms have white tile with green accents. The green was far bluer than the avocado or the green of the 80s. The green of the 90s was far too blue. They’re still beautiful though!
Raised and recessed paneled doors have been around long enough that I think they can probably be called timeless. I’ve seen raised paneled doors in postwar kitchens, recessed panels were ubiquitous on prewar cabinets, and both have been common at least since the 1980′s. How they’re mounted to the cabinet frame has changed, but the difference between partial overlay doors on the outside of the cabinet and the older lipped ones that sit about a quarter inch beyond the cabinet frame isn’t glaringly obvious unless you’re looking for it deliberately.
Subway tile was used in residential bathrooms, but earlier than most people seem to think. My friend’s grandmother’s house was built in 1919 and has rectangular tile in laid in a running bond pattern in the bathrooms. It has a completely different look than new tile, though. The tiles are about 2×6, not 3×6, they don’t have curved edges, and the grout lines are really thin. The 1920′s houses I’ve been in have square tile. White tile with black trim is probably the closest you can get to timeless. My grandmother had it installed in 1954, so its time in the sun was WAY longer than subway tile.
This makes me remember that in my 1912 house, the one bathroom that had not been significantly renovated had plaster walls that were etched to look like subway tiles. So, I tend to agree with you: Subway tiles may well have been used in residential bathrooms the ’10s. I am out of my element overall in this discussion, though, as my focus has been on immersing in postwar culture. I just do not know enough about how common subway tiles were in residential bathrooms early in the 20th century, vs. other solutions. Another tile I see promoted in publications covering the late 1930s and 1940s, by the way, are large glass tiles — 12″ square glass by Pittsburgh Plate glass, for example. You can see them in this 1948 streamline / deco time capsule bathroom: http://retrorenovation.com/2011/01/12/1948-streamline-moderne-time-capsule-house-portland-oregon/
I love those 12″ glass tiles. In the city I live near, which saw its greatest growth in the early 20th century, there are a number of large older homes that (if they haven’t been grossly updated) have those old tiles. My favorites have light green glass tiles with black trim.
Another thing I noticed, that bathroom sink in the streamline moderne house in Portland that you posted was popular for a long time. I’ve seen it in houses with vintage bathrooms that were built from the ’20s through the early ’60s.
For timeless door styles I would say the full inset door with an inset frame and simple wooden knob. Known as the shaker style door. If you change the knob it can fit into any decade.
Agreed regarding a slab of real marble — for rolling out pie doe and the like. Yes, makes my Timeless threshold. Thanks!
I can’t think of anything else that would be truly timeless in the bathroom or kitchen, but I do hate the way the word “dated” is used in design. If a person says, “I think that is ugly” or “It’s not my style” I can respect that, but dated is always said as if everyone should agree that it’s ugly. And often, on home buying shows the potential buyers will call something “dated” even if it’s not really old, just something they don’t like.
I remember bringing a gorgeous, classic Geiger sweater jacket to a consignment shop and having the clerk refuse it because it was “dated.” The word made me cringe. I hate it used on houses, too.
I think a larger problem with things being “dated” is the quality. When my parents were building their house, they wanted it to be “timeless” so they would never have to update. My mother and I had many long discussions about fads and styles and we came to this conclusion; a great way to keep “dated” from equating with “horrid” is quality. It’s not the pink tile that’s terrible (not that I think that, but you catch my drift), it’s that pink tile is often associated with old, cracking, stained, mildewed grout. The upkeep and quality of items lead to the horror. I’m sure that in 50 years there will be a site dedicated to the oil-rubbed bronze hardware of 2012, but the items will only matter if they were top of the line and still usable.
Agreed.
But unfortunately, very little made now is made to last. Our criminal former owners put in trendy drawer hardware and hinges (thankfully, they left the cupboards alone), and the hinges are falling apart after 10 years. Oh, how I wish I had the dated hardware! I just don’t see much of the today’s new stuff lasting beyond a decade or two. Ugh. I hate planned obsolescence.
Using the word “dated” is better than calling it ugly. We all have different tastes and we are influenced by what we see in magazines and marketing. Colors come and go “in style.” Even spouses don’t always agree on home decor. Decorate how you like because the only guarantee you have is the next family will want to change it anyway — no matter how much you love it. In a few short years, we’re told this is out an this is in. Even your friends aren’t going to tell you what aspects of your decorating they find unattractive, “out-dated,” out of place, out of balance, etc. I’ve been in beautiful homes that I love the look of, but they are not me.
I’m in the process of renovating a small bath with Daltile “spa” hex tiles in the floor (and white subway tile in the shower). I am keeping a very old pedestal sink.
I guess I’m going for timeless.
Yes — sounds great. And yes: I think a classic pedestal sink would fit the bill. Which one, though? I think something like this one: http://retrorenovation.com/2007/10/18/luxury-waterworks-sink-wall-mount-with-chrome-legs-and-towel-bars/
Pam, I love that sink. I am, however keeping the 1940 pedestal sink that was put in my very old farmhouse.
This is a great thread.
Off on a tangent here – if I could go back a little farther than 60 years. Dating kitchens to the house works great in the modern era. I understand why you are focusing on that – you are recognizing the difference between true technological/cultural change, and mere fashion. But I’d like to just briefly go into the changes of a much older house.
Our house was built in 1917, and neither my wife or I want a 1917 Kitchen. Nor a ’20s kitchen. A house as old as ours would have been updated over the decades, and the updates would not have been mere fashion trends.
When our house was first lived in, back in 1917, the kitchen likely consisted of a sink, a gas range (though electric is possible as well), a hoosier cabinet, and an ice box. That was probably it. And there was no washer/dryer combo in the basement, so the laundry was probably done in wash tubs in the kitchen -at least in cold weather.
Though built in cabinets existed at the time, they still weren’t the “norm” at least in working class housing. One side of our kitchen still has no cabinets, and no evidence there ever were cabinets.
So, over the years, people opted for electric refrigeration instead of an icebox. That’s a pretty big change in technology, not just a stylistic update. At some point a wringer washer was purchased for the house, and laundry was no longer done in tubs in the kitchen. Later still an automatic washer would have replaced the wringer type – quite an improvement in convenience. Then came a dryer so laundry didn’t have to hang in the kitchen to dry (we live in MI, so hanging on the line outside is not a year ’round option) Refrigerators got bigger as women quit doing their marketing every day or every other day. The rise of supermarkets gave rise to the custom of buying a weeks worth of groceries – and having to store a weeks worth. Thus bigger ‘fidges and more cabinets.
True authenticity to the date of the home would be very difficult in our house. We couldn’t do much more than have a kitchen “isnpired” by say the ’20s. IMO that usually works out worse than just picking a later period to “date” the kitchen.
It’s one of the advantages of a house this old – it would have been updated at various times, for sound reasons, and the modern owner has the option of “dating” the kitchen for any time since the house was built.
So, for a planned kitchen remodel, we’ve decided on the ’40s as our style period. Probably pre-war ’40s, before steel cabinets became wildly popular. But we’d also have the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s as options. (Couldn’t bear the “style” of the ’80s or later)
But I do agree with you that if the house is less than 60 years old, the date the home was built is probably the best choice for dating your renovation project.
I agree with your line of thinking very much. Yes: I focused on the last 60 years because that’s when we started living like we still live today. In regard to what’s in our kitchens and bathrooms – nothing has really changed much.
“Authenticity” can be calculated is like what happened in my house, a 1870 non-descript frame house – as ChrisH says, a house would have been periodically updated. Just about the time that awful (but really quite easily painted) asbestos siding was put on the outside of the house (between 1950 and 1965), some of the interior was “updated” to the current styles. So out went the pedestal sink and clawfoot tub, and in came a sink vanity and regular tub. I’m sure people living in much older homes were thinking the same thing some people think today – that “dated” equaled “ugly.” And so, when I replaced the horrible tub surround last year, I automatically went with 4″ tiles because, although that does not fit the structure and year of the house, it does fit the fixtures that were replaced previously. By the way, you’ll never find anything but very mundane colors of 4″ tile at the big box stores, but look at places like Habitat ReStore – where I found more than a bathroom full of lovely yellow tiles – 4″ and bullnose! (On a related note, when I thought I didn’t have enough of the vintage tile, I bought some plain white 4″ from Home Depot to add a design and fill in a perceived gap. The new tiles were ever so slightly smaller and shallower than the vintage – so much for the quality of newer products!).
I think it’s not as much a case of maintaining ‘period appropriate’ as it is a case of remaining ‘sympathetic’ to the tone of the home.
I agree, being *sympathetic* is maybe even better said about the design ethic of the blog. That said: This story isn’t really about *what to do*, it’s a parlor game to try and figure out, what specific pieces could be put together to create a *timeless* kitchen and bath.
I would think a kitchen using restaurant-type materials would look fairly timeless, with lots of stainless seel and white tiles, perhaps?
As for bathrooms, while house hunting, I’ve been in houses with an off-white 4-inch tile, or an off-white with little pepper flecks, and the houses have been of varying ages. It made me wonder just which tile was original and which had been added. I really liked this off-white shade and think it seems fairly timeless.
And what about flooring — anything that seems timeless?
I hear you regarding the salt and pepper tile, JKaye. However, I think it fails my test because it got *horrid* for a while there.
FYI, I sold some stainless steel kitchen door fronts to a customer recently. I usually mention that they can show fingerprints, but using Orange Glo floor polish can keep them fingerprint free. He laughed, as he was a car enthusiast and planned to have the fronts sprayed with automotive clear coat, so problem solved forever! That’s probably not necessary on sinks but great idea for vertical surfaces!
Oak floors may be timeless.
I look at the very dark wood flooring that is style now and think, it must be a mess to live with. It’s going to show every piece of dust, scratch, and then be as dated as everything else.
CB
Yes, Carol — oak flooring, natural finish, is on my list of Timeless … but for the rest of the house, not the kitchens or bathrooms. And agreed: The dark wood flooring that is *fashionable* now is a DISASTER in terms of showing scratches,dust, hair, etc.
Other items on my rest-of-house Timeless list include: Sheers pinch pleats on traverse rods and shoot, now I forget, I had a few more. Oh well, they will come back to me. My brain is no longer Timeless, alas…
UPDATE: I remember now: Good oriental rugs, Good round or oval braided rugs, also on the Timeless list for rest of house. Probably also: Human-scale, roll-arm, upholsterd back sofa and club chairs. Wing chairs, too.
I have always put oak floors in my kitchens. It needs occasional refinishing, but I find it easier on your feet and back than tile. And sorry, I ran surgery centers for a living, I don’t want to ever see another VCT tile…
Pam! Amen sister!!! I’m with you all the way. I want to tear up the wall to wall in the dining room to see the the wood floors peeking out from a patterned area rug.
ummmm, wall-to-wall carpet a very desirable midcentury home feature – back in the day.
that said, i pulled up burgundy plush wall-to-wall in our big living room, and put in oak. the room had always been carpeted… Tip: Burgundy carpet is like a dark wood floor – shows every goddamned spec. pardon my french.
Interesting question and discussion and I could not agree more that “dated” is a hateful word and I can’t wait until they start to apply it to granite and stainless steel.
When I think about this, it seems to me that a type of material that is dated to an era can be used over the course of many different eras in different ways and in combination with different materials and so become “timeless”. For me, one of these is the little six-sided floor tiles. They seem to date to 20′s era houses, maybe earlier, but I put them in my 1946 bathroom in 2003 and love them. One way they can be varied is with the grout — what color is used. I used a dark grey, and I used tiles with a matt finish so they would be less apt to be slippery than the highly polished one.
The tub surround area is 4X4 tiles white, so I got timeless there. The other walls are tongue in grove wainscotting, another look that I find pretty timeless because it is used all the time.
One other thing that I think can fit into many different eras are the subway tiles, which were so common back in the 20′s but I even see the HGTVers using them, maybe in new colors or in new materials, such as glass tiles of both smaller and larger sizes than the “traditional” tiles.
Elizabeth Mary, I 100% agree to you regarding the 4″ hexagonal tiles for bathroom floors — yes, that goes on the Timeless list. However, regarding subway tiles, I disagree. These can be *dated* to a particular era. I am not an expert, but I believe they were used principally in SUBWAYS and sometimes on the walls in Victorian kitchens – inhabited by servants, not by residents of the house. They were not *fashionable* until, I’d say, the late 1990s. So far they have been a *fashion* item over time… not throughout the decades. That is my Tough Test for this list.
Gee, about the subway tiles not being fashionable until recently, that is not in my experience. First, they were on the walls in the bathroom of my grandparents wonderful 1930′s stucco house — the bathroom was never updated. Then, while I lived in my 1926 stucco bungalow I dreamed of a new bathroom and for inspiration used several 1920′s kit house catalogs and several books on bungalows and saw a number of 1920′s still-original-bathrooms with what I call subway tile on the walls as well as the hexagonal tile floors. So, that was going to go in my new bathroom when I did it. Unfortunately it was a one bath house and I could never figure out how to do it over while living there. So, I didn’t get to do my “new” bath until I moved here into my 1946 Cape Cod ranch but I still used the plans I had for the bungalow. I gave up on the subway tile to save a few hundred dollars and am still sorry I made that decision.
Subway has been around different houses in different ways. I worked on a restoration of a 1920′s mansion in Texas and both the kitchen/butler’s pantries as well as the upstairs baths in both the master and guest baths had subway tile.
Subway tile, the traditional flat kind without beveled edges has been in use since the late 1800′s in both kitchens and bathrooms and was later used in subways in 1901 The grout line was extremely narrow and called a string joint. The original designers of the subway wanted something that was very durable and would last with lots of scrubbing. The traditional subway tile can be purchased through Subway Ceramics http://www.subwaytile.com/ and American Restoration Tile.
I agree with you on the 4-inch ceramic tile. I just finished a DIY remodel of the main bath in my 1954 Cape Cod, and I never considered anything for the walls other than 4-inch ceramic (although the trim is gorgeous copper-backed 1-inch glass tile from Susan Jablon).
Here’s the color selection story. I naively assumed that The Tile Shop would have a rainbow of 4-inch ceramic, since it’s the default size and material when one thinks of tile. But they carry only white, “biscuit” and maybe almond! The clerk told me nothing more was available, even by special order, because the store sells only the paltry palette of tiles manufactured for The Tile Shop. So we looked at Home Depot, which sported a placard with about 30 colors — but clerks at two locations told me “We can’t order any of the colors on that card.” Unbelievable. Same story at Lowe’s — gorgeous array of colors dangled before me, but “we can’t get those.” We finally special-ordered American Olean field tile in “matte mushroom” (not too far from rose beige) from a local tile outlet. (And because I overestimated how many times I’d mangle the cuts, I’m stuck with a couple of boxes of unreturnable extra field tile.)
As for kitchens: I recently sold my Queen Anne, built in 1900. The kitchen was created before the invention of newfangled gizmos such as “countertops” and built-in “cabinets.” The room has two windows that begin about two feet up from the floor — which means that when counters WERE added, they had to run them around the perimeter, with two notched bays for the windows. You could lean over the counter and peer down into the uncleanable abyss of dust and cobwebs in the window wells. Looking in the windows, you could see the unfinished backside of the backsplash. And yet this was the most logical thing to do. It would be unthinkable to rip up the facade to replace the windows with shorter ones (and not allowable anyway since I was in a historic district where such drastic change is forbidden if visible from outside). The authentic way would be to forgo counters and have what looks like a kitchen full of movable furniture bits. I don’t know what I would have done if I had had the money to gut that kitchen and start over.
Such great information on this site!
We also have a Cape Cod/Colonial style home, ours built in 1952. Our first floor bathroom has a ton of 4″ cracked mauve/peach tile that needs to be repaired/replaced. I definately want to keep the 4″ tile, but my husband can’t stand the color, and is threatening to tear it all out and start from scratch (which would be a very expensive endeavor and I’m afraid he would want something non-period authentic, like subway tile). Has anyone heard of bathroom tile refinishing? It is supposedly less expensive (and quicker) than retiling, and removes the need for regrouting periodically. However, the process is such that I think it looks a bit odd unless it’s done in all white (i.e. it turns the grout the same color as the tile. So if you refinish in, say, beige, the entire tiled wall is beige). I haven’t found any photos on this site of 1950s bathrooms done in *all* white. Were any 50s bathrooms ever done in all white, or were they usually white and black (or was that the thirties style)? Sorry I’m so confused. Just trying to stay true to 50s bathroom style. Thanks!
Sorry, I don’t think you’re gonna see me writing about how to paint tile anytime soon; I can live with virtually any color of tile! For replacements, try World of Tile, Springfield, NJ. I have lots of stories on them.
I think butcher block countertops are pretty timeless. I haven’t seen them in 1950′s kitchens, but I’m sure they’d look terrific on white metal or wooden cabinets. Was it in the 60′s that they started to appear in laminate form? I remember my grandmother’s kitchen was updated with them in the 70′s and my mother had them installed in our new kitchen in 1988 (still looking good!) Those were laminates, but the real wooden type seems popular now…
A slab of butcher block in one part of the kitchen is Timeless. But not along the entire countertop – and also because, it is so hard to maintain, I would not recommend it.
I have to disagree-I’ve got butcher block counter tops, and find them very easy to maintain. They wipe down easily, and if they do pick up any mars or marks, a little bit of very fine grit sandpaper takes care of the problem. Every so often, I wipe them down with ‘butcher block conditioner’ which is a mix of mineral oil and wax, which takes maybe 15 minutes. More work than tile, to be sure, but the light wood is so pretty and warm that I think its well worth it.
Yes, bb is on the list. You all have turned me around.
Unfortunately, timeless can also be boring. You’ll never go wrong with white or beige bathroom tiles and white appliances, but unless that’s your taste you’ll get tired of them quickly. I think that when renovating, you need to do what’s right for your own needs at the time. If you want a purple counter top, go for it, especially if you are planning to stay in your home for a while.
I agree that white and beige and grey can be boring — but you can always tart them up with wallpaper, paint, accessories, rugs, etc! I have rose beige tile bathroom with white fixtures and floor — my wallpaper is vintage atomic and the whole room POPS it’s a family favorite!
Chrome hardware in the bathroom is pretty timeless. For a short while brass was trendy, but chrome is classic.
And what about black/white checkerboard floors? They appear throughout different decades and still seem fresh.
I totally agree about the faucets. And I like them in the kitchen too.
Remember brass faucets in the eighties? They didn’t last. Gold also had a run. Will oiled brass go the same way?
I worked for a design-build firm for 2 years as the exec asst and design coordinator. When oil rubbed bronze received a sudden boost of popularity, I cringed. That was because I viewed it as the brass and gold of previous decades. It was already starting to fall out of favor with clients when I got laid off from there.
Me? Shiny chrome or brushed stainless will always work.
I think your point about “dating” to the era of the house is right on target. When we started the remodel of the kitchen in our minimal traditionalist cottage, we were not so much going for a certain look as we were trying to make the tiny kitchen more functional. I did not set out to do a “retro” renovation, in fact most of the design elements I was looking at were things that would have been much more suitable in a large farmhouse type kitchen. Which is HOW I ended up where we are now … all of the countertop options that were available just seemed wrong and though I was driving my husband crazy with my indecisiveness, our little house just seemed to be telling us, “no, not that, not that either”. When we stumbled upon the option of metal banded countertops, I knew that was what we were looking for. And thus, how I descended into the rabbit hole. But the kitchen (which will hopefully be finished this decade) looks like it’s been there all along (in part because we, thankfully, kept the original cabinets), while being significantly easier to work in.
But regarding your original question … do cast iron double bowl kitchen sinks fit into the timeless thing? It seems to me they span a long, long history and would fit in just about any kitchen. As would a good, standard cast iron bath tub.
I thought about the double bowl cast iron sink – maybe. The problem is: Hudee ring or no hudee ring? Hudee rings were all the rage for a long time, then they weren’t, and they certainly aren’t now. Countertop installations were NOT common, then they were. http://retrorenovation.com/2010/11/11/where-to-buy-metal-rim-kitchen-sinks-note-kohler-bakersfield-sink-now-discontinued/ The Kohler Delafield with hudee ring… or a countertop model. And YES: Nice cast iron tub, like the Kohler Mendota: http://retrorenovation.com/2010/06/01/choosing-a-bath-tub-big-enough-to-soak-in-i-change-my-kohler-recommendation/
Yes, I suppose the Hudee ring would come into play. We found a vintage sink that we were able to get a new ring for (the original being pretty trashed) but had we not been able to find that, I probably would have been okay with just a plain, drop-in double bowl. I do think there is a timelessness to white cast iron in whatever form … and love what you said about “tarting” up the white in other ways! (We are “tarting” up the kitchen with wallpaper and a red marmoleum floor.)
Re: Cast iron double sink. We had the kind with the hudee ring when I was growing up. It was very easy to wipe off the countertop by running the sponge over it and push the crumbs into the sink and then wipe around the ring. In the ’80s they came out with those monsters with the big mounded edge and no hudee ring. You had to clean the countertop by pushing the crumbs over the edge of the counter. If you pushed them toward the sink, they’d get wedged into the thin caulk around the edge of the sink. I hated that sink.
I’ll take a stainless steel double sink any day.
Pam, I think I totally agree with your short list of products that could be considered timeless (great “tough test!”) – especially the explanation for why the subway tile is not timeless (just ubiquitous nowadays), which I totally agree with. I wonder though – I really, really agree with 4″ tiles as timeless. That’s the first thing that came to my mind. But almost without fail, every single time I see or hear of a bathroom “update” (geez, I really cringe at “updated” and “dated,” too), the homeowners and any design people they might have on hand are all gung ho about ripping out the beautiful, quality 4″ tile, and replacing it with stuff that looks like a Lowe’s display. I can’t even count how many have said or intimated that the tile – no matter what color – is the ugliest thing they’ve ever seen (HGTV/This Old House types). So is 4″ tile only truly timeless for those of us who love the stuff?
I think white, glass-front cabinets are the closest thing I can think of to timeless in kitchen design.
I have a tub area that was (badly, sloppily) DIYed in 4″ white field tile by our house’s previous owners. I’ve been tempted to rip it out and replace it with subway tile with dark grout…but I realize I like that look because it’s the current style. So I wrestle with whether to do that (because I know it’ll start looking “dated”) or to just re-do it in field tile without the wavy walls (which is slightly more timeless but not as exciting a prospect to me).
This discussion reminds me of why I love wearing vintage clothing – because unlike new stuff, it’s not getting any more out of style than it already is! And having a wardrobe of garments from the middle of the century, I can bring them in and out of rotation as various decades are serving as the current fashion’s inspiration.
White glass-front cabinets — I’m liking that. But what door style for the base cabinets??? Haha, I love this: “… it’s not getting any more out of style than it already is!”
I as going to say oak hardwood flooring, butcher block counters (even though impractical, were, and still are widely used) and black and white checkerboard. Yellow kitchen were used in the thirties, it was the original color of our kitchen and the same color we painted our living room as a 1950′s color. For our 1901 Shingle Victorian cottage, we also went for the ‘accumulated over time’ look. (I saw we like my husband has any opinion <: ) A turn of the century exterior, 1920's inspired bathroom, 1940 dining room, 1948 master bedroom, 1950 kitchen, 1956 living room and all the way up to a 1969 French Provencial bedroom for my daughter, it all somehow works and flows all together all the while looking like its all been here since bought new to 'update.'
Ok. Butcher block (real) countertops on the list. Even though they are impractical. I am not sure I agree with the black-and-white checkerboard. Have to think about that one.
For people who know they don’t want to roll dough on the BB countertop, I hear great reviews for treating the wood with a product called Waterlox, it takes a lot of the maintenance out of having wood countertops, but you can still sand and refinish them. For some reason, everyone I sell butcher block to imagines themselves master bakers, but I am suspicious that 1 in 50 really are. If one insists on oiling the wood, that’s where a portion of the kitchen, or an island makes sense…less surface to maintain. And butcher block can live side by side with laminate and look beautiful!
I always thought that to roll dough, you wanted a slab o’ marble – not bb?
Very True, marble is a fave for bakers. Although it is very porous and needs sealing. Most people just seal it with granite sealers (but then you would roll dough cause of the chemicals). But I’m sure chefs have a sealing product out there or a method of cleaning that is food-safe.
Oops, I mean one wouldn’t roll dough on chemically sealed marble….
Also, I like your idea about light yellow. Never *huge* never *horrid* always there humming along. I think this makes my *timeless* list more so than white.
It’s really arbitrary whether or not something is considered ‘dated’.
If someone were to install the ‘trendy’ items of today, then a room probably will seem outdated in a few years. Trends change too rapidly. If you want classical styling you HAVE to look to the past, whether you want to or not. lol
I’ve decorated my kitchen with craftsman styling, white appliances, porcelain, and stainless steel sinks (**though I’m very unhappy with my American Standard porcelain sink that I spent $600 on), and though I still have back splash tiling to install, nearly ten years later people still comment about how up-to-date the room looks. Maybe I’ve succeeded, and maybe I haven’t, because there again, when it comes right down to it, I think classic styling is really based on personal opinion. Will people ever reach an agreement?
I know people who if pointed to what I consider real classics, such as pedestal sinks (my FIL hates them with a passion), clawfoot tubs, porcelain sinks, linoleum, and the like, would consider those things outdated in favor of more trendy styling.
Me, I’d love a 1920 styled kitchen. *sigh* lol I’d put in the old fashioned style stove (maybe an AGA), a Big Chill retro style fridge (price is a deterrent on those – doesn’t Frigidaire make one too?), and either a stainless steel or porcelain sink with drainboards. Yes, there would have to be cabinetry and counter space, but the ‘feel’ would be there.
I’ve loved reading what everyone has to say. This has been very interesting.
** I’m eyeing those stainless numbers with the drainboards quite seriously – if I can find one with large enough bowls that will fit the 38″ opening.
In my parlor game, I recognize that *period* styles can be *classic*, but they are not necessarily *timeless* as per my threshold. They must have been popular in an enduring way, so that you can’t *date” them… Craftsman style – while classic for bungalows and A&C homes — went *out of style* — and in the 1990s, back in style. Aga’s: Yes, endured since the 1930s. I just don’t know how popular they ever really were in American kitchens…let me think about this one, it might make my list!
Indeed, I’m trying to take the *arbitrary* out — by saying each element must have endured through time… never *horrid*
I forgot to add….dated, horrid, unfashionable to me, blue bathroom fixtures from the 1970s (I have them in my house and absolutely hate them), but there again, as you’ve said in the past, some day, someone is going to want a time capsule 1970s ranch. Those blue fixtures might fit right in with what they have in mind. The ones in this house will no longer be in service, but I’m sure they’ll be able to find some to reinstall should they want to.
This just goes to show how different people can be. I have two 1963 bathrooms with blue fixtures, both sinks were broken, and I went to all kinds of trouble finding blue sinks and repairing the toilets to keep the blue fixtures. One is in ‘spa’ the other in ‘robin’s egg.’ The one has a Cinderella tub, too. Now, that is not timeless, but everyone who sees it thinks it is something special.
i have a 1952 home that i have tried to make choices that are true to the home, affordable, eco-friendly as possible, and also unoffensive to the HGTV lovers who may one day buy/rent it.
i went with 4″ white tiles in the bath (replacing a cracked plastic surround – ick!), and painted the walls a lovely aqua. with my yellow chalkware fish it’s retro fun, and with a bamboo vase it could feel spa for someone else.
in my kitchen i did cork flooring, which is authentic to the period, green and also a accepted modern material. i would vote for that as well! i went with a recycled concrete and glass counter to replace the bad 80s stuff that was there (i’m blessed with original cabinets) but it has a terrazzo feel that i think works for the era of the home even though it’s new.
ps – love this thread – wish everyone thought like us! a recent chat with my realtor about a retro front door suggests more people are!!
Thanks, Jen. Yes: Cork tile can go on the list — but with the footnote that it was not typically historically used in kitchens… hmmm.
I thought eichler houses utilized cork flooring throughout. No?
okay but very midcentury modern – not modest….
Would a recycled concrete and glass countertop really be typically found in a 1950′s colonial home? I haven’t seen this in any of the photos of 1950′s kitchens. We are about to replace the 90′s countertop in our 50′s colonial, but we were thinking stainless steel would be a more authentic choice to go with our metal kitchen cabinets.
Hi Catherine, I have never seen a concrete and glass countertop in an 50s home. Have you seen my Kitchens/Countertops category, above — tons of stories there about appropriate choices. Take a look!
I’ll check that out. Thanks!
We live in Alberta, in a 1950 bungalow and just finished renovating our main floor bathroom (“only” 9 months!)…I love 4×4 coloured tiles and decided to make over our bathroom in the 1950 style. My husband was on board, but I did not realize the daunting task that faced me in recreating this style. None of the Big Box stores carry 4×4 tile here (except for white) and we had to go to a speciality tile store. And by the way, the gentleman there who sold me my beautiful daltile blue 4×4 tile looked at the pictures I had of 50′s bathrooms and declared them to “ostentatious”…sigh…only my husband understood my desire for this timeless style. Now that it is done (with awesome Amy Butler towels) my friends love it, but truthfully some (most??) are bewildered by my desire to keep my house in the year it was born…
I was wondering if a French country kitchen would be considered timeless, or is it too much of a trend? Like a colonial would probably be associated with the 50s and 60s?
I think maybe so yes, Shannon. Or elements therein.
I have had 2″ thick maple butcher block counters for 34 years. My kitchen has white slab cabinets with glass in some of the top cabinets. I have a white tile backsplash with a raised relief and an Elkay sink with a drainboard. The counters have never been a problem. I used to oil them with Watco Danish oil and I resanded them a couple of years ago and used Waterlox. I really think that Waterlox is the product to use. I can put another coat on every 2-3 years without sanding the surface. Don’t be afraid of butcherblock!
ok. Fear not the butcher block!
I have thought a lot about this, but I don’t know if I can whip a cogent statement together.
A few years ago in Minneapolis, our Art Institute hosted a touring exhibition about fakes and copies. During the 1920′s when everything Egyptian was hot, the market was flooded with convincing fakes. The piece they exhibited was a lapis lazuli head of Cleopatra, but it was a fake. It seemed obvious to me because her hairstyle was pure flapper, but in the 1920′s, maybe that hairstyle seemed classic because it was “in” to have “Cleopatra hair”. Anyway, the point was that we can’t help but incorporate elements of our time into anything we create, even if we are trying hard to copy another style.
Even in men’s pants, the issue of pleats or flat-front and which is “classic” is debatable. I hope the next new thing in design and style is to stop chasing “classic” and to have fun with new and innovative again, even if that means it will be dated in the future. I love my pink bathroom! It’s great because it’s classic 1950′s, dated or not.
I hear ya, Beth. Like I said, this is a bit of a parlor game — not a prescription for what anyone *should do*.
Although I will add, it is near impossible to have fun with “new and innovative” since most of what’s out there is derivative of the past – as you have pointed out. I have thought about this a lot, too. The only “new and innovative” comes from big technology breakthroughs, I tend to think… e.g. Stark “ghost chairs.”
That’s such a good point, but even those Ghost Chairs are a direct nod to Louis XV! Yes, you’re right. I’m most lit up these days by what is being done with “green” materials and creative re-use. I’m renovating my 1956 house, and most of what we’re doing is massaging what’s there because it’s perfect as designed. Since we’re going to redo our kitchen, we’re using images from the 1950′s to inform our choices: flat front cabinets, medium-toned wood grain, real linoleum flooring. It will look contemporary, and we’re fine with that, but we are going to honor the mid-century aesthetic. It’s a puzzle.
Beth, your post made my brain fly off on a not-really-related idea…. but anyway….
The 1920s fake of Cleopatra with the flapper haircut…
Made me laugh and think of all the bad horror and cowboy movies from the late 60s.
The women in a lot of the horror movies were supposedly from the Victorian era, but they had those big, poofy, teased-top 60s hairdos with the curls coming out underneath. Same with the women in the cowboy movies. It seems like no matter how close to historically accurate they were with the costumes, they always missed the mark with hairstyles!
This applies to hair in period films even today. I guess it’s because many period styles would look strange and unattractive to our eyes and the female lead especially has to be pretty for the audience! (I notice background characters are more likely to have “correct” hair)
On the subject of “timelessness,” I would vote for black and white checkerboard floors, but the question is what size of tile? I’ve seen checkerboard in some pretty old magazines (turn-of-century or before) but it is usually a smaller tile than was used mid-century which is in turn a smaller tile than we can get today (thinking of 12X12 VCT here).
could’ve been 9″x 9″ asbestos tile?
For a bathroom with a vanity (door style still to be decided): A slab ‘o carrera marble with an undermount sink. Even though the Carrera is a bear to take care of…
I think inset doors with raised panels (painted white) would be the hardest to pin to a period, even though I don’t think they were really common until post-1980.
The styles that become the most “dated” or most obviously of a particular time are the trendy and faddish designs. Classic designs are more timeless. Now, that said, the further we get from a style’s time period, the more classic it becomes.
I am going to have to ponder the exact difference, splitting hairs, between *timeless* and *classic*. I think there is a difference. Agreed: The more *fashionable* something becomes the more likely it will fly too close to the sun and like, Icarus and his wax wings, crash and burn into the hell of *dated*. Only *maybe* to rise like a phoenix from the ashes a few decades hence.
Talk about timeless! The stainless steel triple sink in my 1963 time capsule house is the same as the one in the Elkay ad in your article, except no drainboards, just the sinks. The plumber was in snaking the drains for me the other day, and he said he had someone order one just like it not long ago. It now costs $1200. He was impressed to find one in here and cautioned me to never get rid of it. It’s a beauty, with decorative drain covers and built in plugs to shut the drains. He did say it doesn’t have the original faucet, since this one is too short to got to the middle of the sinks. Shopping for a new faucet, I found a Kohler one in Stainless Steel/Satin Nickel. Fancy that! I love satin nickel, and here Kohler is equating it to stainless steel. It will exactly match the patina of the sink. So, maybe we can add satin nickel finish to the timeless list.
yup. those things are spendy today!! the thrifty can still find them at Re-Stores, though. I’ve seen some FANTASTIC ones!
Can I throw in bead board, Huh? Pretty please. I know that people will equate it with “country” but it appears to work across the years, regardless of the house’s birth year. ALso, stainless in the kitchen, any form – sinks, counters or appliances is timeless in spite of the slavish obsession on the television shows. Laminates will always be around – just too affordable and very DIY for both baths and kitchens.
I don’t know about the bead board. Her Highness must ponder. Stainless steel okay. Laminates certainly fit my 60 years’ window. But what color(s) truly endured? Off-white… almond? Someone asked about 4×4 tiles making it on my list; same reasoning as laminates — not always super *fashionable* but always acceptable never *horrid* or the word I now remember I meant to use: *hideous*. That’s the word that all those people with so much money NOT utter on the tv shows: *hideous*
I am so wishing that Armstrong 5352 — that multi-tonal brick vinyl flooring — had made it through these last 20 years. An off-white 5352 for sure would have made my *timeless* list.
I’ve been lurking around this site since September and am absolutely loving it! I’m following this discussion on my phone at work. Is this the most discussed thread of the new year? How ’bout an iphone app?
-Lex
I’ll ask my dev guys. You want an app for Comments, or for the whole site. I don’t have an iphone. I don’t know about this. Crap, it’s always more technology!
I grew up in a 1929 Tudor…it was one of the oldest houses in its neighborhood, and thus was surrounded by 1950s/60s Capes and ranches. As a kid/teen (and aspiring architect — which never happened, but back then I did have dreams of it
), I had plenty of disdain for my neighbors’ homes, finding them too cookie-cutter-alike and lacking in style.
Now — oh, the irony!
— I live in a 1958 tri-level that I absolutely adore. Makes me wonder if some of the kids growing up in newer, “cookie-cutter” suburbs these days will someday make something wonderful of those homes, the way that many of us have recognized the beauty and worth of the homes of our youth.
In other words — is there anything “timeless” in the mass construction of *this* era? Time will tell, I guess…
Update for those of you following this thread. Some smart reader in the Comments above made me remember that: *horrid* isn’t the word I really meant to use, *hideous* is. I am going to update the post. p.s. Every day that goes by, my brain gets more *worn out*
Wow, this is a fun question. Lots to think about. I don’t really mind the term “dated” but to me it is a separate term from “original”. In my house the 2nd bathroom is “original” — I restored the 4″ tile (white with tiny gold and grey flecks). The light fixture was “dated” because it wasn’t the original, and I replaced it with something new which will likely look dated. I wish I had bought a more classic light but the perfect one was just too expensive. In my house, the renovations over the years are the things that now look ‘dated’ — not the original things.
Timeless, now that is even tougher. It’s a rare item that works for every style and era of home. Saltillo tiles, for example, are timeless and classic, but not appropriate for most styles of architecture (though many have tried, sigh).
I think the best way to make a timeless list is to look at what sellers do to spruce up a house for sale: new beige carpet, white or beige walls, etc. And that is kinda depressing…
Totally agree with this one: “Saltillo tiles, for example, are timeless and classic, but not appropriate for most styles of architecture (though many have tried, sigh).”
When my parents bought their first home in 1973, it came with a dual bowl stainless steel sink.
I seem to recall it being an Elkay sink.
Formica and linoleum. The patterns have changed, but the product is essentially the same. It’s pattern that “dates” it. I wonder though if there is a pattern that has stood the test of time among these products. How about butcher block counter tops? They have been around a long time as far as I’m aware. This is a fun topic to think about. Maybe with all readers combining their ideas we can come up with the most “timeless” kitchen/bath around.
That is my goal, vintigchik. Re linoleum, I think it went *out of style* for a long long time. Not *hideous* maybe, but way out of style in preference for vinyl sheet. Also, I’m gonna suggest that butcher block linoleum entered into the *hideous*-sphere – among the masses, not here of course! I will think about it some more…. haha, I get to make the final cut, playing Queen. All this input is really really helping, though. Actually, I have both rooms almost *done* in *timeless* fashion. The kitchen floor is giving me some trouble still, though. Some great, close, ideas, but I’m not sure if they are perfect wrt my threshold, though. Certain architectures, saltillo, but that’s a very limited set of architectures…
I was thinking about this some more and have noticed that glass brick/block being used throughout many decades, even today.
Yes, that might well make the list, v-chik! thanks!
Pam, what about a blue and white kitchen. I did my backsplash with mostly white tiles but added white tiles with blue accent corners and then blocks of delft tiles above sink, stove, and corner.
I think white appliances have no age problems. Always a choice even if the trendy want harvest gold or stainless steel. Unfortunately, it’s getting a bit hard to find white microwaves. Will stainless go out of style?
I agree on the brick floor. I’m having the hardest time finding an affordable look.
I vote for hard wood floors as well & not that laminat stuff that resembles it either. Real wood, please.
I agree with the oriental or braided rugs.
White porceline sinks/bathtubs also do it for me.
I heard today on the news that you should update the electrical stuff in your house every 10 years or otherwise people will think your house is dated. But electrical stuff they meant appliances – ha! No thank you, I will live in my dated home happily.
“The news” is crazy!
“people will think your house is dated.” After being sickened by everyone on HGTV finding everything “dated” I have decided that I no longer care what people think. If I like it, that’s good enough! Things they find “dated” that I like:
Any working appliance
Any working light fixture, although I could see replacing one that doesn’t match what I want in the house. That halo fixture Pam posted would be so much fun, it might win out over something a little more ordinary.
Newish floor covering except if it doesn’t match my furniture or color preference.
Things have to be pretty worn out or not working before I start shopping for replacements. Raised in a depressed area by parents raised in the Depression. Where do people get all this money to replace working appliances?
To me, the small details are what makes something timeless. In a kitchen, it’s a window above the sink and lower cabinet shelves that pull out. In the bathroom, it’s a recessed stainless steel toilet paper holder. I’m a believer in form follows function, and as we get older, we’ll likely need to renovate to make our living spaces more conducive to our limitations — ADA height toilets, fixtures that are easier to operate with arthritic hands, walk-in showers instead of tubs, etc. (Wish someone would invent a stand-up tub as I prefer baths to showers.)
There are walk-in tubs. You don’t stand, but you sit on an elevated seat. If you search “accessible tubs” you can find them.
Well you did say pieces so I am going with a basic hair comb for a man it has always been made out of plastic pretty much the same colours. Sure it sprout variations like the Afro comb but as far as I can see the basic mens hair comb fits in any bathroom era in the last 60 years
hahaha. did you know I did a story on “retro toothbrushes” once: http://retrorenovation.com/2009/08/26/toothbrushes-to-fit-in-vintage-porcelain-ceramic-toothbrush-holders/
White appliances are classic. While Pam’s website sings the praises of aqua, pink, yellow, avocado and copper colored kitchen appliances, and I myself LOVE avocado green, I think it’s really hard for some people to be committed to them. Vintage appliances often cost some serious dollars to restore and you do really have to adore a color like aqua to want it in your kitchen for years. I’ve found modern black appliances to be too stark for small kitchens and show every last drip and spot. Stainless steel is expensive, can look too “industrial” for a home and shows fingerprints. I feel like the reason white stands the test of time for appliances is because they are pristine looking, bright, and familiar, all things one would want in a kitchen.
Hey, I have a white refrigerator, stove and sink! I am aok with “appliance white”. I actually wish there were more choices, nicely done, today!
Oh, I do too! I see so much avocado green (and other 1970s colors) out there in other home design, I wish it would come back in appliances! I also love seeing all the amazing vintage appliances on this web site and all the colors. I didn’t even realize they made pink appliances until I found Retro Renovation. My aunt used to have a copper colored refrigerator and stove (now gone, unfortunately) that I thought made her kitchen look so warm and cozy when I was a child. Still, I think white sometimes gets overlooked for all it’s positives.
I agree that white appliances are pretty timeless. The color, though, is the timeless part. What dates an appliance are the shape & style of doors, trim, handles, knobs, etc. Of course, I myself am a fan of aqua & pink appliances, but I take being called “dated” as a compliment!
About “other rooms in the house” I 100% agree on oriental rugs.
Not so sure about braided rugs – might be my urban East Coast upbringing but I don’t remember them being a thing unless you really like C is for Checks and Also For Chickens Country-style decor. I don’t hate them, don’t get me wrong. But in a very ’50s Colonial cool setting, not every decade?
I do have to make a mention for the Windsor dining chair though. Except in very strident finishes, I think they do every decade? When does a black Windsor, for instance, ever look wrong?
I think the strength of Windsors is they don’t commit you to country, or formal, or being astoundingly of the moment? I think other dining chairs dictate a certain look re: formality/country/modern but they sort of are the trim black slacks of chairs and dress up or down. I am pretty sure I’ve seen them in spreads from the ’20s through today.
Or am I making stuff up? I have a Windsor set I am thinking of painting.
Incidentally, my grumpy Philadelphian mom refuses to consider subway tiles timeless because “in my day, they were in the subway. In the kitchen? Guh. Makes me think of rats. Bathrooms? I suppose I can see the connection between subways and a place to urinate, but it’s not an appealing stream of consciousness.”
(I actually don’t mind them, but I suspect their constant presence in design rags has something to do with that… that and I’m not truly timeless – I have a wide Deco streak)
I don’t think there is a single timeless bedroom set, probably because of the styles changing in wood finishes so much, and also because beds have gotten comparatively enormous.
Yes, I agree with your mother, I don’t really think subway tiles were ever used in homes. Re braided rugs, okay maybe not in a midcentury modern, but I think they were pretty common throughout the decades — like Windsor chairs!
Well, I do have to step in to defend the maligned subway tile again. I have books with pictures of bathrooms and kitchens in original condition and some have subway tile on the walls. These are homes of the 1920′s — bungalows because that is my first love, before I decided mid-century modest was OK too. So, I know that they did appear in homes at least as far back as the 1920′s, and I suspect even as far back as some Victorian homes.
Second, I suspect that when the NYC subway system was installed it was considered a thing of beauty. I believe that the tile signage (sp?) and art work at every station is different in design and color and many are quite beautiful. Further, the atrocious behavior of people in the subway today is a sign of the times (not good) and I find it improbable to believe that when the subways were first opened about a hundred years ago, with the beautiful work and being the new form of transportation, that the people immediately set out to dis-respect them and soil them as they do today.
Here is some information about the building of the NYC subways and the tile work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_tiles
And, here is a wonderful collection of photos of many of the stations along the lines. These are beautiful. And, a big surprise to me and probably will be to others is that in many stations the wall tiles are what look like 4X4 square tiles and not the rectangular “subway” tiles I expected to see in all stations. So….. if the subway tile is to be thought of as dirty and not something anyone would want in their house, maybe the same should be said about the more beloved 4×4 tile as well???
Sorry if I am being overly protective of something not appreciated by many, but I am an old lady (74) who has loved them all her life and has seen them in use in homes all that time as well. And, I have lived in NYC and seen the beautiful tile work — and the mess the stations have become, which is unfortunate.
OOPPSSS,
I forgot to put the link to the pictures of the gorgeous subway signs
http://www.codex99.com/design/106.html
Sorry, and I hope some of you enjoy this.
Hey, I am not *maligning* subway tile. As you will recall, we put it in my mom’s bathroom — and it is GORGEOUS! I appreciate your response — are we having fun with this thread, or what! — and am hereforeto backing off my assertion that subway tiles were not commonly used in residential bathrooms in the early 20th century. I am out of my element overall in this discussion, though, as my focus has been on immersing in postwar culture. I am curious about this subway tile issue, and will put it on my list to research, at some point. Note: Another tile I see promoted in publications covering the late 1930s and 1940s, by the way, are large glass tiles — 12? square glass by Pittsburgh Plate glass, for example. You can see them in this 1948 streamline / deco time capsule bathroom: http://retrorenovation.com/2011/01/12/1948-streamline-moderne-time-capsule-house-portland-oregon/
I totally love how the 4×4 (or 6×6?) floor tiles are set on the bias, adding a bit of directional interest. Very timeless and chic!
Super thread- what I’m doing is bringing back features lost in my 1953 Japanese style atomic ranch.
Having the aid of a few photos and removing layers of “renovations” done by previous owners like an archaeological dig, I’ve been able to ascertain features which I have faithfully either restored, or replaced with period materials.
As far as kitchen and bath are concerned, this I improved on, while keeping faithful to the original design of the house.
Original white Kenmore range and GE turquoise wall mount refrigerator and matcing oven and Ventahood range hood remain- stainless dishwasher and LG front load washer dryer are new.
Missing or broken plywood cabinets with maple fronts were removed and replaced with a Japanese style thin edge horizontal grain wood cabinets, reusing the original bowtie chrome pulls.
Original cork floor was three layers down below and too damaged to salvage, so a new cork floor replicating the original was installed.
The best any of us renovating a home can do is be faithful to the house and it’s builder’s intent.
I undestand why owners of much older homes, pre WWII would want to “update” rather than slavishly restore, with some effort, a balance can be struck.
It’s the old adage about restoring paintings like the recent dilemma in France over the famous DaVinci which critics claim was overzealously cleaned- do you keep the patina of age? Do you return it to how it looked under gaslight? Under candlelight? Do you leave something for the next owner or future generations to do?
There is always a fine critical balance to be found, and this is perhaps the most difficult, labor intensive position to take, but ultimately the right one for the property.
I don’t have wrinkles; I have *patina*.
Wish I’d seen this earlier today (but fear it would have become a major timesuck) because my brain is embroiled in this very question. (Did you write this just for me?)
I’ve got a 70s split, updated in the 90s. We think most of the “updates” are “hideous”–because they just don’t work in this house. It feels like it’s trying to be something it’s not. (And some of it is just plain ugly, to us.) We don’t know that it’s possible (or desirable) to return it to its original state. The kitchen cabinets are very 90s–but way more functional than the original cabinets (which we know because some are in the garage). Getting rid of them because we don’t care for the 90s style seems wrong.
So, we’ve been trying to think in terms of timeless style. For us, that doesn’t mean anything that’s been around through every decade so much as things that would be considered to have good style regardless of decade. I think there’s good 70s style and bad 70s style. Like one person suggested above, quality is part of that–but I don’t think it’s the whole thing.
I think some colors are timeless. Maybe combinations of colors? (Avocado green with an antique white and rich brown is timeless. Avocado green with burnt orange and harvest gold is not.) Probably some materials. (4-inch tiles yes. Subway tiles no.) Certain kinds of lines are, maybe. Balanced proportions.
We want to restore enough 70s style that our house doesn’t seem like it’s trying to be something it’s not, but think we can also acknowledge that it’s not the 70s anymore. For better or worse, “updates” are now part of the house’s history, too, and we’re thinking about which of those updates we want/need to keep and which we might undo.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who finds these fascinating questions.
Rita, you say: “For us, that doesn’t mean anything that’s been around through every decade so much as things that would be considered to have good style regardless of decade.” That IS pretty much what I am saying with my timeless threshold. To be considered good style it had to stay around all decades… that’s my point. It couldn’t have become *hideous* so you cannot *date* it.
I’m going to toss in another vote for light yellow in kitchens. Its been fashionable and unfashionable at various points since the 1920′s, but its always around, and always acceptable.
I also think that slab front white cabinet doors are pretty timeless. They aren’t always a *thing*, but they are always acceptable. As a side note, I’ve heard from an kitchen planner that for this year white is the new in color for kitchens, since people are getting tired of dark wood, and getting tired of something that is easily datable.
For whatever its worth, when I redid the kitchen in my 1960′s ranch (the 1970′s remodel was in bad shape because of water damage), I went with a double bowl stainless drainboard sink, butcher block countertops and white slab doors. And light yellow walls. The kitchen isn’t perfectly period, but it doesn’t look out of place with the style of the house, and it isn’t really datable to a specific decade. At least I don’t think it is. Maybe once the remodel is totally done, I’ll post pics and ask people to guess the year
Yes, dark wood is surely on its way *out.* This makes me think, what is a *timeless* wood finish? How about: Natural cherry.
Even cherry might be a little too dark. What about the mid-tone that you see with a lot of knotty pine and birch cabinets? I don’t know what the official name is, but I’ve often seen it called ‘antique’.
I’ll go looking. I was thinking there was a “natural” cherry that was not dark…
We had cherry cabinets put in our kitchen in the house we lived in in the early ’90s. Those cherry cabinets that were light at the time darkened over the years from exposure to sunlight. You could tell when you opened the doors. The wood that wasn’t exposed to the sun was much lighter. Is there a finish that can be applied to cherry to prevent this? Or is that a patina that should be allowed to occur?
Cherry naturally darkens with age this is considered one of its positive features. I don’t know of any product that can prevent this.
First: there is a difference between timeless and classic. Timeless to me means that a specific year or era can not be attached to an item. Classic, on the other hand, does attach a specific time. For example, many people would say that a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air is a classic 1950s car. Second:I think for the bathroom, the best example of timeless that hasn’t been mentioned is a role of white toilet paper. I do remember colored toilet paper in the 1950s and 60s. This went with the colorful bathrooms of the day. however, white toilet paper hasn’t changed in over 70 years. Third: homes older than 1946 need to have a balance of authentic vintage and pieces in the character of the time. Otherwise you have a high maintenance museum piece. Forth:Oh I forgot and I’m nodding off…. Thanks Pam for having this great site. You’ve done a fantastic job.
Okay, without doing further research of my own (as I am a “words” person) I will accept your definition of *classic* as a design that is universally revered as wonderful — iconic — even though it can be *dated*. For example: We are now there with Saarinen tulip tables. Originally: Haute couture (sp?) midcentury modern…. then knocked off like nuts, often with diminishing quality… then likely considered *dated* and *hideous*… with the passing of time, now revered again.
Gee…..I guess I’m late to the “timeless” party! LOL.
My take: there really is no such thing as timeless except for the object itself……….time is always moving, we have a past, a present, and a future, and that’s it.
Once an item is invented and if it proves useful and practical….then maybe I guess that is as close to timeless as you can get. Example: built in cabinets in the kitchen – they got invented, and have endured since then. Style of said cabinet will NEVER be timeless, because it will always point to some time reference – “old fashioned” “country” “modern” “futuristic” and color, material, and style will vary. The cabinet itself is the only “timeless” piece of the equation. Just like a counter top, a mirror in the bathroom, a light fixture so we can see, a chair we can sit on, a table, etc.
For every person who views these objects, it will have some reference to “time” no matter what. So, my conclusion is, there really isn’t anything style wise – color wise – material wise that is truly “timeless”. Another example is 4″ tiles since they have been listed as timeless in this thread by a few folks – these are NOT timeless. Only the tile itself is close to being timeless because tiles of many sorts have been in use since they were invented. But, there is and has been a time when 4″ tiles were WAY out of vogue….not too long ago. 8, 12, 16″ tiles usurped 4″ tiles….and again, size, color, material, pattern may have changed, but the tile in and of itself is the only “timeless” part of the equation here.
Just my .02, but it was fun to read all the comments!!!
I disagree re 4″ tiles, T3. And note: I am limiting the *timeless* discussion to only the last 60 years — the postwar years. The question is: What pieces have been used year in and year out, without getting considered *hideous*. I think 4″ tiles, in the bathroom, have always been acceptable.
Until today that is. I was laughing becase today”s NYTimes Home & Garden section has a coumn on wether it’s prudent to retile for resale. One of the “knowledgeable” folks quoted said DO NOT USE 4 x 4 TILE, IT’S DATED!!!!!
What do they know.
ugh — and they point to some *trendy* stuff instead that sounds to me will be not a great scale for most small NYC apartments.
What about affordability? 4″ x 4″ tiles have always been sold at a price that many people could afford them. Installing and cutting 4″ tiles isn’t as difficult as some other tiles, as it’s a simple grid. Had these tiles been pricier, would they still be considered timeless for their design alone? Same for laminates, they have been priced right for a long time, so people used them although the available colors changed. I get it that it’s about midcentury modest, but some of the things that used to be modestly priced are not anymore. 4″ x 4″ ‘ s have survived those price changes, thus making them consistently available. Does price affect timelessness?
Good point about the affordability. I’ve also seen the 4 x 4″ tile installed in a “stagger” pattern so that it looks more updated.
We “refreshed” our bath a few years back, and although I would love subways, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the look of the 4 x 4″ tiles that are there, plus it looks more appropriate for the 60′s home.
It was too funny to read this quote in the New York Times this morning:
Ms. Fong recommended installing large-format ceramic tiles (12-by-24-inch or 4-by-20-inch) for a contemporary look. “Definitely don’t use 4-by-4 tiles,” she said. “That would immediately date your bathroom. It will look like a 1970s or 1980s leftover.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/garden/bathroom-tiles-color-sales-killer-market-ready.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22market%20ready%22%20january%2012%202012&st=cse
Haha. Yes, someone who sells tile said it.
Wrote a lengthy reply to this just full of wisdom
last night, and must have screwed up hitting the submit button somehow. (Wise does not always equal smart…) Felt this one was written just for me, and now have to write my own post in response (soon). All I’ll say for now is this: Spent a good part of last Saturday search for 4-inch tiles at our local Rebuilding Center. I do think some things are timeless. Love this post and the rich comment string.
You comment was there, Rita, it was in moderation and I set it free.
white appliances. Back in the 70s when all my friends had avocado green and harvest gold appliances my parents would never buy anything but white. Even when they are 20 yrs old they don’t look dated the way the colored ones do (and stainless steel will in another 20 yrs).
Not very Mid-C at all, but distinctly vintage, my grandmother had a large framed print of Jenny Lind, the famous soprano and “Ugly Duckling.”
Since my grandmother listened to more Patsy Cline than opera, this is a mysterious thing, but it’s a really pretty and LARGE portrait, and it always had a place of honour in her apartment and it’s over my mother’s fireplace today.
In many cases isn’t “dated” exactly what is wanted? If you’re renovating a ’70s house you want those avocado appliances.
yup
. when you’re buying a house, though, be sure to pretend you don’t want them and negotiate down down down. they don’t need to know.
EXACTLY my thoughts Pam, and them come HERE to figure out to live with a perfectly useable house. (I also came here to figure out what I “hate” about older homes as well, lol)
Oh how I hate that word, too (dated). I hear it all too much on home renovation shows (room crashers, etc.) and it absolutely breaks my heart when they take the *dated*, beautiful stuff out (usually with a sledgehammer! ouch!) and put some trashy, low-quality junk that the next homeowner will just rip out, anyway, because it will be *dated* and fall apart in 10 years anyway. I don’t know if there is anything that is timeless, but I do know this–I am doing everything I can to keep those *dated* things in my house (beautiful kitchen cabinets, wood floors, bathroom tile, brick fireplace) as long as I live there. I am so thankful that it doesn’t have granite countertops (talk about things that will be dated 10 years from now), and that the previous owner had the sense not to completely renovate the home and leave some of the *dated* things alone. I like it that way.
Two nominees for timeless:
First is leather club chairs. These seem to have always been at least acceptable if not all the rage.
Second thing is stained glass, in one form or another. Has stained glass ever really been completely “out” or dated? Certain shapes of lamps, etc. become dated, but stained glass in general seems timeless to me.
Only at pizza hut, only at pizza hut.
Do a Google search of Julia Child’s kitchen. I think it’s as close to timeless as you’re ever likely to find; probably because she designed it for function rather than fashion
I did a story on Julia Child’s kitchen, Steve, here it is: http://retrorenovation.com/2009/09/01/julia-childs-kitchen/
subway tile classic (especially in white)
I despise the word dated… I heard it a million times when I worked for a design-build firm. I wanted to clobber some clients cuz they were destroying the history of their home (even though they were my bread and butter).
But if someone came to me to “undate” or “decade-neutralize” their home (those are my phrases that I coined) to prepare it for sale, I would recommend:
simple WHITE bath fixtures, period sensitive to the home’s history
pale taupe (yuck) or “Navajo white” (also yuck) on the walls throughout
brushed or polished chrome plumbing fixtures and cab hardware
white (or something like it) Corian or Silestone tops
stained wood cabinets with simple full overlay doors
12 x 12 white or off white porcelain tile
wood floors, mid level color NOTHING DARK
Seriously, that is the list to undate a home. I would admonish them then to decorate or stage with rugs and accessories and simple wall decor from Hobby Lobby.
Notice there is NO natural stone anywhere on the tops or floors. That is one thing that I can assure you will “date” a home from the early 2000s.
For me, I resolutely prefer to dress and design a home based on the home’s design, architecture (inside and out!), and floor plan. There is nothing more goofy looking that a fully redone 2000-2012 interior on a mid-century modern or even a Victorian home.
My own home was built in 1977. Yes I removed the harvest gold appliances when I bought it (a couple didn’t work anyway). I replaced with stainless since by the time they die off a natural death, then they’ll need to be replaced anyway.
I did not take out my very hard to find yellow Formica tops in my guest bath! Instead I dressed around it because it is indiginous to the house and frankly, it’s really retro cool! I redid the floors in there with 1 x 1 tile. See my site. It’s cute as it can be and it WORKS with my home’s era. I get tons of compliments because it actually is NOT dated.
I did have faux butcher block in the kitchen. If I had real BB, it would have stayed. But you simply have to see what I did to it (can you click on my name to see my website?). I have created an entire home that mixes the original stunning woodwork with a bit of whimsy and fun, all with the original layout and floorplan in mind. I’ve even repainted the exterior to uplift it’s appearance so it “goes” with my eclecticity on the inside.
Oh, and I HATE granite! After we have raped and pillaged the earth foraging for it, and left all of those gaping holes, this fad will die off and they will tear it out in a couple decades. So sad. The only outdoorsy thing that I feel no conscientious qualms about is wood. It is renewable. So is bamboo and cork (and its very pretty).
Okay, I’ve overstayed my welcome. But really, this fad that we designers are enduring now to rip out what BELONGS in a vintage home and make it look like this decade is just wrong. I had a client whose home was modeled after an original floorplan and interior style (wood, catwalks, stone, exposed beams, etc) of a Frank Lloyd Wright home. After I recovered from the initial shock of its beauty and Mid-Century style, I actually talked her into decorating around it! And it’s stunning now.
My eternal recommendation will to always design around a home’s era, with pretty colors and nice accessories, mixed in with period sensitive permanent fixtures.
As a Realtor specializing in Houston’s first and recently created, post WWII Historic District, I come across this issue all the time. There are so many one or two owner homes here that have pristine original finishes, and too many people see them as “dated” and want to rip it out. I have seen some heartbreaking things at the curb on heavy trash day. To me, they are dulling out the house to make it look just like any other. Now that we are a historic district, it has helped attract more people who appreciate the vintage style. Some of my highest priced sales in the neighborhood have been homes that were restored, but retained their original baths and kitchen cabinets, etc. Even so, I still get people coming in saying I should drop the price because the pristine vintage tile baths NEED to all be “ripped out!”
I live in Houston and know there are some mid-mods around, but had no idea we now have a district. Where is it, Please?
There are some decorating books that have been useful to the idea of timelessness–the old Better Homes and Gardens ring binder books. If you can start with a theme and build on it over the years, and not get distracted by new this or that you can create an atmosphere(just my opinion, of course,) that suggests a timelessness. Like, say, colonial. When you redo a bath or kitchen you look for the elements of whatever particular style in which you are interested, in the tile, the cabinet wood, paint, accessories, etc. It can be done, and on a shoestring too! But, it can’t be done right, overnight.
What about Asian-inspired design? Black or red lacquer, chippendale chairs, etc. These elements have shown up in every era and live happily with modern and traditional settings…
Sadly, the only things left of my 1920′s cottage are the outside wood, wood flooring, some studs, wall and ceiling board – both of those horribly damaged. At some point, the house was gutted, walls and up and down stairways moved, garage moved from one side of the house to the other and a room added over the new garage. And plywood was nailed over the wood floor in the kitchen – I’m scared to see what’s underneath though that is where the original basement stairs were. 90% of the workmen I have had come to give estimates for repair say they’ll get back to me and don’t. One got a foot inside the door and said the whole thing should be torn down. And the only thing in the file at the village is a “cease and desist” order for work being done without a permit! This is the extreme of “out with the old”.
I think that basic standing sinks, toilets and tubs in white or other plain colors may survive the test of time. For kitchens, perhaps simple wood cabinets.
I’m neither a slave to current trends or to what was once a current trend. I’m not a fan of harvest gold and never will be. I don’t like the stainless steel/granite kitchens that are so prevalent either.
I was raised by artist parents who loved antiquing and “junking” – they were the precursors of today’s trash-to-treasure movement. I was dragged to more auctions than I care to remember. They has a unique design aesthetic for the 1970s and passed along their love of the eclectic and the antique. There is a sense of continuity and history we don’t often find these days.
I have also found that many items of the past were better made. In many cases, furniture was made of wood and not the cheap press board prevalent today.
You might want to coin a new term– “classically fashionable”. It could refer to things that have enduring value and can be fitted into any time period.
My question was really just whether you thought all-white tile bathrooms were ever built during the 1950s.
Also, ceramic tile refinishing is not the same thing as tile painting (I would never think to paint my tile bathroom! It peels and looks terrible.)
I apologize if that sounded rude. Hmmm. I don’t see too many all-white bathrooms in my personal travels into 1950s houses. Nor do I see many in ads. But, I tend to believe sure they existed. How about “bone” and white? My mother-in-law always said this was a classic combo. Here are some bathrooms in very soft shades, circa 1956: http://retrorenovation.com/2012/03/05/gorgeous-gray-and-turquoise-1956-tennessee-dream-kitchen-and-4-bathrooms/
All that said, Catherine, I still tend to believe there is no substitute for the look of real tile. That’s essentially a Glass finish on top. I don’t tend to believe that can be replicated with any in-place process, because it takes very high heat to fuse that sort of finish…
It’s your bathroom, though: The colors should sing to you!
For timeless things in a kitchen or bathroom last 60 years or so I would add to the list hexagonal tiles both black and white, subway tiles, basketweave bathroom tiles, in gray, black and white and one inch tiles in white and black. I would also add the classic wooden medicine cabinet painted white. For cabinetry in the kitchen I say full inset drawers with a slab or full inset drawer style. For cabinetry cabinets I say full inset doors with full inset panel. For lighting in both kitchen and bathroom perhaps schoolhouse lighting in white milk glass and chrome such as Rejuvenation Hardware’s Rose City and Jefferson. Also in kitchen and bathroom the following styles from Rejuvenation wall bracket light such as the Umpqua, St. Helens or Enright, or the two arm variety such as the Walton, Pendleton or three arm variety such as the Chesire and Three Forks all in chrome or nickel finish. http://www.rejuvenation.com/catalog/categories/lighting/period-basics
Just read this post for the first time, from your 2012 wrap up. I 100% agree with you on these two features. My Grandparents house, a 1957 ranch, has both of these. An Elkay Lustertone, drain board sink and 4 inch tiles every where. I love Grandma’s house even more after reading your wonderful blog. This last Thanksgiving we stayed there as a family and I just soaked in all of the MCM and just enjoyed the fact that these things were her choices for her home. It was an amazing experience.