Lots of readers are struggling to find cost-effective ways to get their vintage appliances — stoves, fridges, stovetops, dishwashers — repaired safely and cost-effectively. Atomicbowler-dave recently provided this advice, which is in synch, I think, with successes other readers have had:

Where to turn to get your vintage appliances repaired? Dave suggests:

I can’t help but wonder on the parts issue… There are certainly times and places where a certain amount of substitution and reverse-engineering of sorts can go a long way.
Certainly, no one should monkey in places they are unsure or uncomfortable when it comes to items that could cause fire, shock or injury.
One thing I have observed, experienced and often engaged in…whether with boats, obscure foreign and antique cars, old equipment, appliances, etc…is a certain amount of mix-and-match and/or artful adaptation. Where there is a will, there is often a way.
I am often leery myself of too much advice bantered about via the internet as one really can’t see, meet or know the source and get a solid feeling for the person’s real acumen.
I’m a big fan of solid, experienced, local people if they can be found. I am an even bigger fan of the “old guys”–most of whom are by now retired or gone on away–who collected the tribal knowlege and also came from an era more imbued with need and willingness for make-do. Heck, most of the ‘ability’ or ‘knowledge’ that I have? Whatever it is that tends to put me in the topkick roles professionally? I learned it from old guys who are now gone, most of it…or at least the foundation that I’ve had to build my own on. (Before my head sounds swelled, let me say that when I get compliments, extra respect or whatever in these jobs, I hold private feelings of unworthiness…because I know who the real hotdogs were, and that I’m not half of them. Just that they’re gone, and that I listened to some of them when they were still around.) The sad part is that I only learned bits and pieces of what these fellows spent decades learning!
My point here–and I do have one–is that in dealing with obscure and obsolete things it can often be best to seek out the retirees or the guys that just keep their hands in part-time…if at all possible. These fellows are usually of the type to know both what TO do and what NOT to do, but also have the historical background to say ‘Hey, I bet I could make the kanooten valve from xyz item work in here’.
If you can find this sort of ‘professional’ help, it’s likely the best of all. There can be some great personal benefits for everyone, too. Good luck with those appliances, I sort of envy your present challenges as I don’t yet have my own cool kitchen to cope with!
Dave

Thanks, Dave. I love the idea of finding retirees or long-time, hometown shops that have a real history with old appliances and are willing to patiently work though the issues with you. I can’t recall exactly – but I *think* it was Gretchen in Sacramento who also recently reported success with her Thermador cooktop working with a smaller, local shop. (Gretchen, am I right? Can you weigh in?) So it can be done. Meanwhile, Precautionary Pam weighs in: Work with licensed professionals. Do not mess with stuff you don’t understand. Empower yourself with your own thoroughly researched knowledge about safety and environmental issues in your vintage home.

Finally, the awesome photo gets an explanation: Dave and Laura go by the handles here of atomicbowler-dave and atomicbowler-laura. What a pair! Dave explains that Laura’s favorite colors are turquoise and pink, so he bought here this new (vintage-look) bowling ball last year for her birthday.

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Pam,

I was wondering if you have ever done any research on Shelf Edging and if so where could I get some.  I don’t think that I ever mentioned that the previous owner had placed shelf edging in the linen closet and also in certain cabinets in the kitchen.  Since I have lived in my house for almost a year now the shelf edging is starting to tear and I would like to have some more on hand when I am ready to put more up.  

.

Any information that you have would be greatly appreciated.  Always remember that you are doing a wonderful job in making Retro Renovation what is has become.  I appreciate more and more the smalls details of my house that everyone else would take for granted.  I sent you some pictures of the shelf edging in my cabinets I hope they help.

Carrie

Thanks for the question and for your lovely words of support, Carrie. This was a fun one to research. From what I can tell looking online, there were four waves of shelf edging design:

1. In the “early days” I am betting the major name making this was Meyercord. They are also known for their furniture and cabinet decals. The paper shelf edging was, I am quite sure, a way for women to dress up their farmhouse and apartment kitchen shelves without having to go to the expense of renovating.
2. In the postwar era, the big name seems to have been Royledge also marketed as Roylies and as Roylcraft. I also see some Betty Brite out there. You should also note that the edging came either as “just edging” or as edging attached to white shelf paper – but all still in one piece.
3. In the 60s, I am seeing plastic, pleated / ruffled , self-adhesive shelf edging from Contact. I like this idea a lot. As you demonstrate with your experience – that paper is going to tear in any high-use area. Also, the adhesive is pretty nifty. Otherwise, I am thinking that housewives earlier put the edging down with thumbtacks.
4. Today’s limited options “new”.

Where to get shelf edging and shelf paper?

Betty Brite "Edge 'n Lining" shelf paper from RetroRubbish. 12" deep, 15' wide, $10. Click on the image to go to the listing.

• Etsy seems to be a great source. The going price for a 15′ strip seems be $5 and up. Search terms: shelf edging, shelf paper, Royledge, Roylies, Meyercord, Betty Brite, Vintage Contact Paper

• You can also watch ebay…

• New #1 — I found a company in Scotland — Diana Forrester — selling gorgeous fabric shelf edging embroidered in France.
  

  cotton and linen embroidered shelf edging from diana forrester

• New #2 — And a company that sells vinyl, pre-pasted, lace style edging. You can buy it here, and I also read it may be available at places like Wal-Mart.
• Finally, if you are handy, you could also make paper edging yourself out of wallpaper (new or vintage.) Create a decorative edge with scrapbooking scissors that you can find at Target; this is going to take a very steady hand, though. And, unlike the vintage edging – which is white where it sits on the shelf itself – your wallpaper-edging is going to be visible on the shelf, too. This may not be desirable. Trying to seam the decorative paper to a white piece of shelf paper may not work either as such a seam would be vulnerable to tearing.

This was a fun question to reseach, Carrie. Good luck!

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Reader Erika Rae found these instructions about how to clean St. Charles steel kitchen cabinets, enameled right inside of  one of her cabinet doors. I presume these instructions still hold. Errr, umm, does anyone know where to get St. Charles Cleaner & Polish?

Interestingly — if you look at my cabinets, there *is* rust on the bottom of the base cabinet doors, close to the floor. Ahhh, the janitors at the cooking school (my cabinets’ original home) did not take care to “always wipe off sub base and bottom of door or drawer above sub base with clean cloth after kitchen floor has been washed.” Alas, but fortunately the rust does not seem to be spreading. Thank you, Erika Rae!

Meanwhile, this is a good opportunity for Renovate-Safe-Pam to remind readers: Remember that old painted surfaces on metal cabinets (and other places in your home) may contain lead (and asbestos may be elsewhere in our vintage homes, etc.), so take responsibility to inform yourself and consult pros about proper attention to environmental and safety issues. For example, the EPA hosts a website on lead in the home and a website on asbestos in the home.

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1. Watch for vintage. First of all, if you keep your eyes peeled and can be patient, there is new old stock out there. A favorite new source: Anderson’s Classic Plumbing. Joy, who’s in the family and handles internet sales, recently contacted me. She found a major stash and is slowly but surely listing it on their site. The image above is from Joy’s stock – gorgeous. Also watch ebay — there’s usually always some vintage Hall-Mack of some sort listed at any given time. Here’s what’s currently on ebay under “Hall-Mack”:
2. Replace the whole thing altogether — Franklin Brass offers recessed soap and tumbler holders in both stainless steel (no rust!) and chrome. They look to have acrylic liners. Link here to FB soap dishes. Link here to my previous post on Franklin Brass products.
   

   Franklin Brass - stainless steel

3. Replacement acrylic liners. Buy a replacement acrylic liner: Okay, now I am *holding this space*. That’s because I coulda sworn a reader recently wrote in with a suggested source, but of course I can’t find it. (If I don’t nab the stuff as it comes in and make a post right away, my retroworld spins right out of control.)
4. As for glass: No known source that I know of. But if we find one, we will add it.

UPDATE: Larson Supply Catalog recommended by Lauren; I need to study.

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I purchased this vintage wallpaper earlier this year off ebay - in my view, it was not packed well and arrived broken up like this. The seller was very accommodating, apologized and gave me a refund immediately. Even so, it was sad because I liked the paper, and the price.

A reader recently reported that a lovely glass item bought off of ebay arrived broken. This situation has happened also to me, at least twice, in the past year. A gorgeous — and in some respects *priceless* find — was packaged with inadequate cushioning. And of course it breaks.

This makes me think I’ll do a post about: How to do your best to ensure that your ebay seller pays attention and ships your precious item so it arrives safely.  It’s not just about the money involved — it’s also the heartache at seeing something you’ve been searching for and finally found — needlessly destroyed. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this subject as well.

So, what can you do to ensure your items gets shipped properly?

1. Check the feedback of the seller. If there are negatives about shipping, beware.
2. Before you even bid, send the seller an email, and ask them to post an answer to the question, “What steps will you take to ensure that this fragile item is packaged properly and won’t break in shipping? Please be specific on your packaging procedures.”
3. Pay with PayPal. I *believe* this provides you with extra protection in case the deal goes sour. Read up on their policies and make choices, if possible, that give you the opportunity to resolve disputes.
4. Pay for insurance.
5. Even with insurance, write in the Notes when you pay the seller,  something to the effect, “As this is a fragile item, please be sure to comply with all shipping company policies when it comes to packaging it appropriately. As you know, shipping companies and the USPS will not pay the insurance claim if you do not wrap the item and all of its parts properly and in compliance with their guidelines.” I learned this when I had a broken item. A gorgeous pull down light with all-glass globes. Basically thrown in a box with some newspaper and shipped. It was ensured. But when I took it into the USPS place they took one look at it and said that they would not pay the insurance as it was not packed properly. USPS and UPS have written guidelines on how items must be packaged in order to be covered by insurance – did you know that? Yes, they do!  Again…what you can see I’m saying is to put pressure on the seller to pay attention. Another thing that I learned: I had to do the schlepping when it came to insurance claims.
6. A variation on this theme: Mint-in-box items. I bought a wonderful MIB item once and the seller just slapped packing tape and labels over the ORIGINAL box and threw it in the mail. Not only did the item get smashed as the original box did not provide enough cushioning, but the box was ruined – and that’s part of MIB’s value. Again: Ask the question up front about packaging procedures before you buy… get it posted on the listing… reinforce it with a note… get insurance.
7. Before you buy, read all of ebay’s and paypal’s policies about resolving disputes — and if you get in that situation, promptly pursue them.

These are just my personal thoughts… . Readers, what do you think? Have you had experiences like this, too? What else can we do to ensure that sellers take care with our precious purchases?

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If you can’t find what you are looking for locally, there are other options as well. Retro Renovation’s Steel Kitchen Cabinet Forum also has a spot for “Other Stuff” including “Bathroom Stuff.” And, intrepid reader Scathing Jane posts there almost every single day.

Jane looks at Craigslist listings from all over the country and loads up some of the best. Case in point: Look at the vintage American Standard bathroom suite, above,  with its swoonable sweet Cinderella tub. And the tile to the left – there’s 38 s.f. of it, posted by Jane last night. Hint: It’s easy to see what’s new on the Forum every day. Register. Then, after you log in each morning, just click the spot along the top Nav bar just above Mr. Cabinet Man that says “View New Posts.” The Forum remembers you and only shows you messages since you last logged in. Thank you, Jane, and others of you who post often to help out other readers.

The farther you get from home (craigslist, Re-Stores, or other local salvage places), the more expensive finding vintage bathroom fixtures is going to get. And that’s before you even have to think about shipping and crating. That’s because specialty places are likely to pick up only the best-of-the-best, and to do that, they also have overhead to cover. If you are on a serious search, though, you might also consider this list of potential sources, which I will add to over time. Two salvage places with online stock include:

• deabath.com
• historichouseparts.com

There are surely other salvage places that will deal with you online, but these are the two that I am most familiar with. Note: We have not heard positive things about reglazing.

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A reader recently wrote to ask, “What color stain would be most appropriate or authentic for a mid-century oak floor?” Drats, I cannot find the email. And, I am not academically sure what the correct answer is. I would guess… a “natural” stain.

Natural meaning – virtually no color. Matte or gloss finish. Gloss, though, would show more scratches. When we refinished the oak parquet floor in our dining room, above, the floor guy said, “All the old floors were done with a natural finish.” We chose matte finish and have been very happy with it. Our oak is getting a nice golden hue as time goes on. Under all the carpets, it’s a lighter color — the sunlight is affecting the color.

I think I may consult with some mid-century historic homes to discern the proper academic answer. But meanwhile: Readers — what do you think? What are you finding in your homes, with original wood floors, including what may have been hidden underneath carpet that’s been there for ages? What is the “authentic” color for mid-century oak flooring?

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Hey, Pam!

Sorry to bother you again, but I have a question I couldn’t figure out while reading through the site: When you buy a set of vintage steel cabinets, how do you configure them so they fit your space? What if there are a bunch of small, “chopped up” cabinets and you have a long galley? Or conversely, what if you buy a long, galley’s worth of cabinets but your walls are “short?” I know the pieces are all separate but how do you get that “finished” look when you put your own kitchen puzzle together? I’m imagining all kinds of gaps in between!This has baffled me and made me pass on some fabulous sets because I wasn’t sure how to make them work for my space! Any info you can offer is appreciated!

Lara Jane

Lara Jane, This is an excellent question. You have hit on an important issue for sure:  While vintage kitchens are most wonderful, it can be a real bear to try to fit someone else’s particular kitchen into your required kitchen space. (Also, this issue was the one that, round about, led to me creating this blog.)

To make an even longer story somewhat shorter, I also hunted and passed on several kitchens — for pretty much five years – - knowing that they would not provide enough cabinets for me to work with.  My kitchen is pretty big for a mid-century kitchen, 15 x 15, as it was expanded in the 70s into an adjacent mudroom – the kind that runs long ways between the garage and the kitchen and also is accessible via a second front door.  In planning for my kitchen renovation, I also was not able to move walls.  And, I had a big picture window and three doors to work around.  So,  I knew that I would need a lot of cabinets to make a salvaged kitchen fit into my space just right. So, as I said, I watched ebay and waited for five years.  There was one set I wept about letting go, but it turned out to be a blessing, as these things usually do. When we were finally ready to do the kitchen, had the money, I still had NO CABINETS. But, just when I was about to give up and buy MDF cabinets in a radius-edge slab-door style and paint them aqua — we had them specked out, I’m not kidding,  the retro decorating gods sent me a humongous aqua metal kitchen – 67 cabinets in all.  I knew — well, I crossed my fingers — that they would provide enough variety for me to make the cabinets work in my space. And they did – but by a hair and only a hair, I swear. When I bought the cabinets there were too many for me to even keep track of, I kept losing count of the exact sizes.  So when I got them home, I took all their measurements, and started playing around on Excel. The final layout is above. BTW, the reason this led to the blog? Over the five years of watching and waiting, I started buying brochures and other materials all about vintage steel cabinets on ebay. Then, bathroom stuff. Etc. My expertise really started to grow, my interest never waned, my projects turned out well. Blogs were “new,” and I thought that starting one would be a good way to share resources and experiences with others going through the same struggles.

Back to the cabinets.

So how to prepare if you are interested in looking for vintage cabinets and planning to install them in your space? Some thoughts:

1. Start by taking complete measurements of your kitchen space. (You can use grid paper to scale, or not. I did used Excel, not to scale.) If you cannot move doors, windows or walls, you’ll only need one drawing. This will give you the basic outline to work with. Make a whole lot of copies so you can mark them up.
2. Determine where you would ideally want to put key appliances — the sink, fridge, stove, dishwasher. Typically, the sink gets centered under a window. The dishwasher goes next to it. I think that the “textbook” place to put the fridge is close to the entry door where you bring in groceries — and, make sure that the door of fridge is swinging the proper way, creating the opening in a way compatible with your other kitchen work spaces. I also personally believe the fridge can go closer to wherever folks are likely to access it the most – say coming in from a family room to get drinks. The “textbook” place to put the stove is nearer to the dining room — with the idea that you serve from this spot. But in my mind, the rule for appliances need not be hard and fast — except for the sink, which I tend to think really works best under the main window. Think  “functionality.” While you’re at this step, play around with the possibilities. You can even make little cutouts pieces for the appliances and move them around.
3. Also, as you are trying to imagine your ideal layout(s), look to see where the working spaces between the areas are. You are going to be cooking – where will you mix stuff? Store stuff? Can you make space next to the fridge where the door opens to stage stuff that goes in and out? Can you make space to the right and left of the stove, which is ideal if possible? The “textbook” says to measure the number of feet in your work triangle — the space on the floor connecting the stove, sink and fridge, and that the sum of the three lines should not exceed 27 feet.
4. Once you are comfortable playing with your core layout – measure the spaces left.  Worry about the base cabinets first. Metal cabinets (and new ones, for that matter) were made in 3″ increments – 9″, 12″ 15″, 18″, 21″, 24″, 36″, 42″. Working with your “leftover” space – what cabinets would/could you put where – ideally.  Also, do you prefer drawer-cabinets, or door-cabinets (most vintage door-cabinets have one drawer on the top.) A lazy susan corner cabinet usually has 12″ doors – one to each side of the L. Otherwise, plan for a corner filler piece. Is a lazy susan something you feel you “must” have? If you have a very small kitchen, I’d recommend holding out for one…but this may depend upon your patience.
5. Now think about wall cabinets. These can be a little easier, I think, because it’s easier to fill in left-over spaces with open shelving.
6. Think about symmetry and asymmetry and how they feel in this layout. For example, I think it’s good for wall cabinetry flanking the sink and both wall/base cabinetry flanking the stove to be symmetrical.
7. Know that filler pieces may be necessary – these can be a real bear to find. I think there might be an alternate solution: Fabricate fillers in wood and then paint them high-gloss to match your cabinets; this would of course be easier if you are also repainting the cabinets.

Once you go through all these steps, you should have a good feel for the number and size of cabinets you want — and also what alternatives might be acceptable. You can then watch sets for sale with more clarity. Even so — I’ll tell you, I think that a number of readers out there are collecting multiple sets to make their kitchen work, and you may need to do this as well. Scathing Jane, I believe, has three sets of St. Charles. I also think that she has been pretty brutal about not paying a lot. And you have that going for you – while you know I think these cabinets are very valuable – they do require this hunting and hassle, therefore, you can tell sellers “take it or leave it.”

I asked Jane for her comments as well, and here is what she said:

If you do want to collect multiple sets to create one complete set that fits your kitchen, I recommend focusing on a mainstream brand where you will find more availability – Youngstown, Genevas and St. Charles’ were the big-three brands. I think you might have best luck with Genevas and St. Charles’ because they seem to have longer runs of cabinets with the same basic lines and handles. In some regions, though, it seems like certain brands were more popular. Start looking- and paying attention – before you buy, and you will get a good feel for your local market. If you collect batches, you may be forced into repainting to get the cabinets all back to the same color. Please know that the paint on anything from this era can contain lead – please educate yourself, take appropriate precautions.

That is exactly why I bought 3 kitchens and have leftovers, and you bought a giant kitchen and had leftovers…

The answer is as unique as the kitchen.

The hard/important pieces for me:

1. A good sink front. I am actually using the front grill to the radiator cover; the box for it was built from wood to hold the front by contractors (Montgomery Building Company).  .  It was 42 or 43 inches wide.  I had two other sink fronts and one full cabinet.  The cabinet was badly “injured” during removal.  Neither of the sink fronts was as wide as I wanted, and frankly I love the design punched into the grill front I am using.
2. The cabinet for the cooktop and the cabinet over it if you are going to vent that way.  The upper cabinets can be trickier than the lowers.  I ended up seeing the perfect over-the-range cabinets in a set for sale on eBay and negotiated for that one, including the original vent system.  If I had not already purchased the cabinets I was using, that set would have been great (good condition), or the large green set up in Maine (?) from last year.
3. Wall oven cabinet.  You need to accept that you might be using a narrower oven than the one you are accustomed to using, and that it might not be perfect.  My cabinet was originally for a single oven and was “expanded” lengthwise for a double oven.  The second oven sits too low.  I will be using the 24’’ wide oven that came with the cabinet (budget) so that was the cabinet to use.   I do have a 30” cabinet, but not a 30” wide oven…
4. Specialty cabinets.  You have to think about where cutlery drawers or pan cabinets should be located.  My husband did an original layout on paper based only on dimensions.  The contractor assigned one of his guys (Sam aka Mr. Patient) to drag cabinets around for me one afternoon as I really looked at everything.
5. Shim pieces. The cabinets you buy should come with “shims” the original installers had to use; these pieces can come in handy.

You really have to think about what different cabinets add up to the exact inches you have available while sticking to a work triangle.  The direction doors open is also a factor: it needs to make sense.

And the all-important piece: the installer.  Your installer needs to be patient, creative and experienced in carpentry and kitchen installations (Russ Carnes of the Cool tile installation in my Pink & Gray bathroom).  In the end, my contractor built a set of shelves for one end of the install because none of the upper cabinets I had really fit.  If you have the budget, you might also want to retain a Kitchen layout person to help you through those details.

Related posts very specific to steel kitchen cabinets:
- How much are my cabinets worth? (or in reverse, how much should I spend?)
- How do I sell my metal kitchen cabinets? (or in reverse: how to buy?)
- “The Hard Way” – this renovation stuff is not easy.

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Interestingly, I also seem to get questions from folks renovating their canned hams (trailers) about where to find vinyl or naugahyde. The catch, however, is that this C.F. Stinson supply is all “contract” – that is, sold only to designers, “the trade.” And I fear you may need to order 30 yards or something. To check this out, I suggest you work directly with an upholstery shop. The website is pretty terrific – lots of fun to browse around. There’s also an outlet store with smaller yardages available (contract only).

If you’re looking for vinyl and want to try other routes… Well, I have not done any more research on this question, but I think that you can have some luck at very large upholstery stores. Every region seems to have at least one. There’s a really big one an hour from me in Springfield, Mass. Osgoods. Blinding inventory. Be sure to eat protein beforehand or you will pass out from the exhaustion of it all. We also used to have a big Waverly outlet about 45 minutes north. They had GREAT stuff. It went out of business but I think that the chain still exists. If you’re looking for a specific fabric – vinyl, or vinyl in a specific color, best to call first before driving an hour. I’ve generally found the folks who work at these stores very nice and helpful – but alas, quite overworked. So, sometimes, you just gotta get in the car and drive and see what the retro decorating gods want to send you.

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Reader Russell also has recommended Locke Plumbing for hard-to-find toilet replacement parts. Apparently they have a good system to identify the exact parts you need based on the brand and model number – it worked spectacularly for him, he reports. Here’s the link to Locke Plumbing’s toilet part guide. Thank you, Russell!

Meanwhile – isn’t Kelly’s bathroom great? She has not moved in yet and gearing up to use tips from the site to clean up her tile. In particular look at the shower – real leaves are laminated into the plastic. And this is one of the first examples that I have seen of a full-sized walk-in shower. I like the way the floor pan is set – the way they handled the tile. Thanks for sharing, Kelly – we look forward to seeing more of your house.

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