I have been thinking a lot lately about whether it would be possible, today, to create a truly *timeless* kitchen and bathroom. That is: Focusing on the past 70 years, when our *modern* American way of life began after World War II: Make a list of all the pieces in a kitchen and then a bathroom that could put together so that, when you saw the finished room, you could not peg it, or any of the pieces in it, to a decade or window *when everybody did that.* Alas, I could not get very far in my little interior design parlor game. I wracked my brain and could think of only two products, so far, that met my rigorous criteria for remaining in pretty much continual use in residential homes… but without getting so *hot* that they ultimately crashed and burned into a sad pile of once-trendy *hideous* *dated* ashes.
My fascination with the timeless comes, I think, as the flip side of my conniption fit whenever someone spits out the word *dated* to describe a home feature that is perfectly functional but no longer popular. Oh, how I hate that word.
While dictionaries may recognize “dated” as meaning “unfashionable”, my issue with the word is that probably 99% of what’s in your home is *dated*. That is, show me a kitchen or a bathroom installed during any decade in the 20th or early 21st century, and I can give you a *date* for it. Continuing on: Tear out a *hideous* [sic / also hate] *dated* kitchen, and replace it with what’s fabulous today — and you will have a kitchen *dated* 2012… Which some homeowner about 20 or 25 years from now will think is *hideous* and spit on and call *dated* and rip out and replace with a fabulous 2022 kitchen… and the beat goes on.
I thought and thought and you know what I think: It’s virtually impossible to put together an entire kitchen or bathroom that cannot be *dated* — and therefore, won’t become “unfashionable”.
So, that leads back to the design ethic of this blog, which is kinda sorta: If you’re gonna have a *dated* kitchen, which is inevitable (I *think*), you might as well have it *dated* to the *date* of the house, which is usually extremely very difficult to hide, especially if there are other similarly *dated* houses all around it.
So what products are modern-era timeless, in my book?
The first two I identified were Elkay drainboard sinks and 4″ ceramic bathroom tiles. At certain points in time, both the Elkay sinks and 4″ ceramic bathroom tiles have been very fashionable… but I don’t think they were ever particularly un-fashionable — and never *hideous* (unless you are very rude).
Timeless kitchen sink:
The first product I’ll declare as timeless — and this one, even pre-WWII: Elkay stainless steel sink tops — which I believe have been in pretty continuous use since the 1920s… and 4″ ceramic bath tiles, also in continuous popular use since at least then.
Timeless bathroom tile colors:
Tile colors with relatively timeless appeal: “Spa” (Daltile) very light blue aka heron blue or robin’s egg blue… rose beige… bone… almond… light grey. White or self- trim. Decorative liner tile is less timeless; a solid liner tile, timeless.
Timeless bathroom vanity:
Update 2017: A modern-era timeless bathroom vanity looks approximately like this [story here]:
ElizaJane says
white appliances. Back in the 70s when all my friends had avocado green and harvest gold appliances my parents would never buy anything but white. Even when they are 20 yrs old they don’t look dated the way the colored ones do (and stainless steel will in another 20 yrs).
Rita@thissortaoldlife says
Wrote a lengthy reply to this just full of wisdom 😉 last night, and must have screwed up hitting the submit button somehow. (Wise does not always equal smart…) Felt this one was written just for me, and now have to write my own post in response (soon). All I’ll say for now is this: Spent a good part of last Saturday search for 4-inch tiles at our local Rebuilding Center. I do think some things are timeless. Love this post and the rich comment string.
pam kueber says
You comment was there, Rita, it was in moderation and I set it free.
STL Mom says
It was too funny to read this quote in the New York Times this morning:
Ms. Fong recommended installing large-format ceramic tiles (12-by-24-inch or 4-by-20-inch) for a contemporary look. “Definitely don’t use 4-by-4 tiles,” she said. “That would immediately date your bathroom. It will look like a 1970s or 1980s leftover.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/garden/bathroom-tiles-color-sales-killer-market-ready.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22market%20ready%22%20january%2012%202012&st=cse
pam kueber says
Haha. Yes, someone who sells tile said it.
TappanTrailerTami says
Gee…..I guess I’m late to the “timeless” party! LOL.
My take: there really is no such thing as timeless except for the object itself……….time is always moving, we have a past, a present, and a future, and that’s it.
Once an item is invented and if it proves useful and practical….then maybe I guess that is as close to timeless as you can get. Example: built in cabinets in the kitchen – they got invented, and have endured since then. Style of said cabinet will NEVER be timeless, because it will always point to some time reference – “old fashioned” “country” “modern” “futuristic” and color, material, and style will vary. The cabinet itself is the only “timeless” piece of the equation. Just like a counter top, a mirror in the bathroom, a light fixture so we can see, a chair we can sit on, a table, etc.
For every person who views these objects, it will have some reference to “time” no matter what. So, my conclusion is, there really isn’t anything style wise – color wise – material wise that is truly “timeless”. Another example is 4″ tiles since they have been listed as timeless in this thread by a few folks – these are NOT timeless. Only the tile itself is close to being timeless because tiles of many sorts have been in use since they were invented. But, there is and has been a time when 4″ tiles were WAY out of vogue….not too long ago. 8, 12, 16″ tiles usurped 4″ tiles….and again, size, color, material, pattern may have changed, but the tile in and of itself is the only “timeless” part of the equation here.
Just my .02, but it was fun to read all the comments!!!
pam kueber says
I disagree re 4″ tiles, T3. And note: I am limiting the *timeless* discussion to only the last 60 years — the postwar years. The question is: What pieces have been used year in and year out, without getting considered *hideous*. I think 4″ tiles, in the bathroom, have always been acceptable.
jay says
Until today that is. I was laughing becase today”s NYTimes Home & Garden section has a coumn on wether it’s prudent to retile for resale. One of the “knowledgeable” folks quoted said DO NOT USE 4 x 4 TILE, IT’S DATED!!!!!
What do they know.
pam kueber says
ugh — and they point to some *trendy* stuff instead that sounds to me will be not a great scale for most small NYC apartments.
Ally Cat says
What about affordability? 4″ x 4″ tiles have always been sold at a price that many people could afford them. Installing and cutting 4″ tiles isn’t as difficult as some other tiles, as it’s a simple grid. Had these tiles been pricier, would they still be considered timeless for their design alone? Same for laminates, they have been priced right for a long time, so people used them although the available colors changed. I get it that it’s about midcentury modest, but some of the things that used to be modestly priced are not anymore. 4″ x 4″ ‘ s have survived those price changes, thus making them consistently available. Does price affect timelessness?
gsciencechick says
Good point about the affordability. I’ve also seen the 4 x 4″ tile installed in a “stagger” pattern so that it looks more updated.
We “refreshed” our bath a few years back, and although I would love subways, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the look of the 4 x 4″ tiles that are there, plus it looks more appropriate for the 60’s home.
Jeffrey from Village Green says
First: there is a difference between timeless and classic. Timeless to me means that a specific year or era can not be attached to an item. Classic, on the other hand, does attach a specific time. For example, many people would say that a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air is a classic 1950s car. Second:I think for the bathroom, the best example of timeless that hasn’t been mentioned is a role of white toilet paper. I do remember colored toilet paper in the 1950s and 60s. This went with the colorful bathrooms of the day. however, white toilet paper hasn’t changed in over 70 years. Third: homes older than 1946 need to have a balance of authentic vintage and pieces in the character of the time. Otherwise you have a high maintenance museum piece. Forth:Oh I forgot and I’m nodding off…. Thanks Pam for having this great site. You’ve done a fantastic job.
pam kueber says
Okay, without doing further research of my own (as I am a “words” person) I will accept your definition of *classic* as a design that is universally revered as wonderful — iconic — even though it can be *dated*. For example: We are now there with Saarinen tulip tables. Originally: Haute couture (sp?) midcentury modern…. then knocked off like nuts, often with diminishing quality… then likely considered *dated* and *hideous*… with the passing of time, now revered again.
Katie says
I’m going to toss in another vote for light yellow in kitchens. Its been fashionable and unfashionable at various points since the 1920’s, but its always around, and always acceptable.
I also think that slab front white cabinet doors are pretty timeless. They aren’t always a *thing*, but they are always acceptable. As a side note, I’ve heard from an kitchen planner that for this year white is the new in color for kitchens, since people are getting tired of dark wood, and getting tired of something that is easily datable.
For whatever its worth, when I redid the kitchen in my 1960’s ranch (the 1970’s remodel was in bad shape because of water damage), I went with a double bowl stainless drainboard sink, butcher block countertops and white slab doors. And light yellow walls. The kitchen isn’t perfectly period, but it doesn’t look out of place with the style of the house, and it isn’t really datable to a specific decade. At least I don’t think it is. Maybe once the remodel is totally done, I’ll post pics and ask people to guess the year 😀
pam kueber says
Yes, dark wood is surely on its way *out.* This makes me think, what is a *timeless* wood finish? How about: Natural cherry.
Katie says
Even cherry might be a little too dark. What about the mid-tone that you see with a lot of knotty pine and birch cabinets? I don’t know what the official name is, but I’ve often seen it called ‘antique’.
pam kueber says
I’ll go looking. I was thinking there was a “natural” cherry that was not dark…
Martha says
We had cherry cabinets put in our kitchen in the house we lived in in the early ’90s. Those cherry cabinets that were light at the time darkened over the years from exposure to sunlight. You could tell when you opened the doors. The wood that wasn’t exposed to the sun was much lighter. Is there a finish that can be applied to cherry to prevent this? Or is that a patina that should be allowed to occur?
tenantproof says
Cherry naturally darkens with age this is considered one of its positive features. I don’t know of any product that can prevent this.
Rita@thissortaoldlife says
Wish I’d seen this earlier today (but fear it would have become a major timesuck) because my brain is embroiled in this very question. (Did you write this just for me?)
I’ve got a 70s split, updated in the 90s. We think most of the “updates” are “hideous”–because they just don’t work in this house. It feels like it’s trying to be something it’s not. (And some of it is just plain ugly, to us.) We don’t know that it’s possible (or desirable) to return it to its original state. The kitchen cabinets are very 90s–but way more functional than the original cabinets (which we know because some are in the garage). Getting rid of them because we don’t care for the 90s style seems wrong.
So, we’ve been trying to think in terms of timeless style. For us, that doesn’t mean anything that’s been around through every decade so much as things that would be considered to have good style regardless of decade. I think there’s good 70s style and bad 70s style. Like one person suggested above, quality is part of that–but I don’t think it’s the whole thing.
I think some colors are timeless. Maybe combinations of colors? (Avocado green with an antique white and rich brown is timeless. Avocado green with burnt orange and harvest gold is not.) Probably some materials. (4-inch tiles yes. Subway tiles no.) Certain kinds of lines are, maybe. Balanced proportions.
We want to restore enough 70s style that our house doesn’t seem like it’s trying to be something it’s not, but think we can also acknowledge that it’s not the 70s anymore. For better or worse, “updates” are now part of the house’s history, too, and we’re thinking about which of those updates we want/need to keep and which we might undo.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who finds these fascinating questions.
pam kueber says
Rita, you say: “For us, that doesn’t mean anything that’s been around through every decade so much as things that would be considered to have good style regardless of decade.” That IS pretty much what I am saying with my timeless threshold. To be considered good style it had to stay around all decades… that’s my point. It couldn’t have become *hideous* so you cannot *date* it.
Jeff says
Super thread- what I’m doing is bringing back features lost in my 1953 Japanese style atomic ranch.
Having the aid of a few photos and removing layers of “renovations” done by previous owners like an archaeological dig, I’ve been able to ascertain features which I have faithfully either restored, or replaced with period materials.
As far as kitchen and bath are concerned, this I improved on, while keeping faithful to the original design of the house.
Original white Kenmore range and GE turquoise wall mount refrigerator and matcing oven and Ventahood range hood remain- stainless dishwasher and LG front load washer dryer are new.
Missing or broken plywood cabinets with maple fronts were removed and replaced with a Japanese style thin edge horizontal grain wood cabinets, reusing the original bowtie chrome pulls.
Original cork floor was three layers down below and too damaged to salvage, so a new cork floor replicating the original was installed.
The best any of us renovating a home can do is be faithful to the house and it’s builder’s intent.
I undestand why owners of much older homes, pre WWII would want to “update” rather than slavishly restore, with some effort, a balance can be struck.
It’s the old adage about restoring paintings like the recent dilemma in France over the famous DaVinci which critics claim was overzealously cleaned- do you keep the patina of age? Do you return it to how it looked under gaslight? Under candlelight? Do you leave something for the next owner or future generations to do?
There is always a fine critical balance to be found, and this is perhaps the most difficult, labor intensive position to take, but ultimately the right one for the property.
pam kueber says
I don’t have wrinkles; I have *patina*.
Jordanna says
About “other rooms in the house” I 100% agree on oriental rugs.
Not so sure about braided rugs – might be my urban East Coast upbringing but I don’t remember them being a thing unless you really like C is for Checks and Also For Chickens Country-style decor. I don’t hate them, don’t get me wrong. But in a very ’50s Colonial cool setting, not every decade?
I do have to make a mention for the Windsor dining chair though. Except in very strident finishes, I think they do every decade? When does a black Windsor, for instance, ever look wrong?
I think the strength of Windsors is they don’t commit you to country, or formal, or being astoundingly of the moment? I think other dining chairs dictate a certain look re: formality/country/modern but they sort of are the trim black slacks of chairs and dress up or down. I am pretty sure I’ve seen them in spreads from the ’20s through today.
Or am I making stuff up? I have a Windsor set I am thinking of painting.
Incidentally, my grumpy Philadelphian mom refuses to consider subway tiles timeless because “in my day, they were in the subway. In the kitchen? Guh. Makes me think of rats. Bathrooms? I suppose I can see the connection between subways and a place to urinate, but it’s not an appealing stream of consciousness.”
(I actually don’t mind them, but I suspect their constant presence in design rags has something to do with that… that and I’m not truly timeless – I have a wide Deco streak)
I don’t think there is a single timeless bedroom set, probably because of the styles changing in wood finishes so much, and also because beds have gotten comparatively enormous.
pam kueber says
Yes, I agree with your mother, I don’t really think subway tiles were ever used in homes. Re braided rugs, okay maybe not in a midcentury modern, but I think they were pretty common throughout the decades — like Windsor chairs!
Elizabeth Mary says
Well, I do have to step in to defend the maligned subway tile again. I have books with pictures of bathrooms and kitchens in original condition and some have subway tile on the walls. These are homes of the 1920’s — bungalows because that is my first love, before I decided mid-century modest was OK too. So, I know that they did appear in homes at least as far back as the 1920’s, and I suspect even as far back as some Victorian homes.
Second, I suspect that when the NYC subway system was installed it was considered a thing of beauty. I believe that the tile signage (sp?) and art work at every station is different in design and color and many are quite beautiful. Further, the atrocious behavior of people in the subway today is a sign of the times (not good) and I find it improbable to believe that when the subways were first opened about a hundred years ago, with the beautiful work and being the new form of transportation, that the people immediately set out to dis-respect them and soil them as they do today.
Here is some information about the building of the NYC subways and the tile work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_tiles
And, here is a wonderful collection of photos of many of the stations along the lines. These are beautiful. And, a big surprise to me and probably will be to others is that in many stations the wall tiles are what look like 4X4 square tiles and not the rectangular “subway” tiles I expected to see in all stations. So….. if the subway tile is to be thought of as dirty and not something anyone would want in their house, maybe the same should be said about the more beloved 4×4 tile as well???
Sorry if I am being overly protective of something not appreciated by many, but I am an old lady (74) who has loved them all her life and has seen them in use in homes all that time as well. And, I have lived in NYC and seen the beautiful tile work — and the mess the stations have become, which is unfortunate.
Elizabeth Mary says
OOPPSSS,
I forgot to put the link to the pictures of the gorgeous subway signs
http://www.codex99.com/design/106.html
Sorry, and I hope some of you enjoy this.
pam kueber says
Hey, I am not *maligning* subway tile. As you will recall, we put it in my mom’s bathroom — and it is GORGEOUS! I appreciate your response — are we having fun with this thread, or what! — and am hereforeto backing off my assertion that subway tiles were not commonly used in residential bathrooms in the early 20th century. I am out of my element overall in this discussion, though, as my focus has been on immersing in postwar culture. I am curious about this subway tile issue, and will put it on my list to research, at some point. Note: Another tile I see promoted in publications covering the late 1930s and 1940s, by the way, are large glass tiles — 12? square glass by Pittsburgh Plate glass, for example. You can see them in this 1948 streamline / deco time capsule bathroom: https://retrorenovation.com/2011/01/12/1948-streamline-moderne-time-capsule-house-portland-oregon/
Ally Cat says
I totally love how the 4×4 (or 6×6?) floor tiles are set on the bias, adding a bit of directional interest. Very timeless and chic!
Laura says
White appliances are classic. While Pam’s website sings the praises of aqua, pink, yellow, avocado and copper colored kitchen appliances, and I myself LOVE avocado green, I think it’s really hard for some people to be committed to them. Vintage appliances often cost some serious dollars to restore and you do really have to adore a color like aqua to want it in your kitchen for years. I’ve found modern black appliances to be too stark for small kitchens and show every last drip and spot. Stainless steel is expensive, can look too “industrial” for a home and shows fingerprints. I feel like the reason white stands the test of time for appliances is because they are pristine looking, bright, and familiar, all things one would want in a kitchen.
pam kueber says
Hey, I have a white refrigerator, stove and sink! I am aok with “appliance white”. I actually wish there were more choices, nicely done, today!
Laura says
Oh, I do too! I see so much avocado green (and other 1970s colors) out there in other home design, I wish it would come back in appliances! I also love seeing all the amazing vintage appliances on this web site and all the colors. I didn’t even realize they made pink appliances until I found Retro Renovation. My aunt used to have a copper colored refrigerator and stove (now gone, unfortunately) that I thought made her kitchen look so warm and cozy when I was a child. Still, I think white sometimes gets overlooked for all it’s positives.
tailfin says
I agree that white appliances are pretty timeless. The color, though, is the timeless part. What dates an appliance are the shape & style of doors, trim, handles, knobs, etc. Of course, I myself am a fan of aqua & pink appliances, but I take being called “dated” as a compliment!